Re: [Asrg] (no subject)

John Levine <asrg@johnlevine.com> Tue, 27 April 2004 16:25 UTC

Received: from optimus.ietf.org (www.iesg.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA10184 for <asrg-archive@odin.ietf.org>; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 12:25:01 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BIV3H-0004AR-Vq for asrg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 12:03:20 -0400
Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3RG3JlI016019 for asrg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 12:03:19 -0400
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BIUyT-0002qv-Pj for asrg-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 11:58:21 -0400
Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA08823 for <asrg-web-archive@ietf.org>; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 11:58:18 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BIUyQ-00009c-ER for asrg-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 11:58:18 -0400
Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BIUxG-0007mI-00 for asrg-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 11:57:07 -0400
Received: from [65.246.255.50] (helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BIUvs-0007Xd-00 for asrg-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 11:55:40 -0400
Received: from optimus22.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by mx2.foretec.com with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1BIUvv-0003W5-JB for asrg-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 11:55:43 -0400
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BIUkb-00080J-29; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 11:44:01 -0400
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BIUUJ-0003Pg-MR for asrg@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 11:27:11 -0400
Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA07242 for <asrg@ietf.org>; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 11:27:08 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BIUUG-0005kG-Ei for asrg@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 11:27:08 -0400
Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BIUTU-0005fm-00 for asrg@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 11:26:21 -0400
Received: from xuxa.iecc.com ([208.31.42.42]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BIUSo-0005bu-00 for asrg@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 11:25:38 -0400
Received: (qmail 28306 invoked by uid 100); 27 Apr 2004 15:25:39 -0000
Message-ID: <20040427152539.28305.qmail@xuxa.iecc.com>
From: John Levine <asrg@johnlevine.com>
To: asrg@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Asrg] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <c6lsjd$be7$1@xuxa.iecc.com>
Organization: I.E.C.C., Trumansburg NY USA
Cc: richard_willey@symantec.com
Sender: asrg-admin@ietf.org
Errors-To: asrg-admin@ietf.org
X-BeenThere: asrg@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12
Precedence: bulk
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/asrg>, <mailto:asrg-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Id: Anti-Spam Research Group - IRTF <asrg.ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:asrg@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:asrg-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/asrg>, <mailto:asrg-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
List-Archive: <https://www1.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/asrg/>
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:25:39 -0000
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60

>One set of exchanges occurs went I communicate with a relatively small 
>group of individuals with whom I have some sort of trust relationship: ...

Yup.  Since spammers will try to sneak in there, you need some sort of
hard to break authentication to identify their mail.  Maybe something
like domain keys will do the trick.  S/MIME sure hasn't.  Any
suggestions?

>However, there is a second set of email exchages that I need to consider. 
>On occasion, I receive emails from "random" individuals with whom I don't 
>have any kind of pre-existing trust relationship.
>While these exchanges are relatively infrequent, they often contain 
>important information.

Agreed.  How much do you expect people to be willing to pay you in
order or how many hoops will they be willing to jump through in order
to send you important information?

>Personally, I think that the Micro-Payment systems offer the best
>approach.  This is technology that is going to be adopted / deployed
>anyway and I'd just as soon piggyback off it.

I eagerly await your discussion of how you expect people to build a
micropayment system that will handle a useful amount of mail (a good
beta size would be five billion messages a day), run at a cost that
people would be willing to pay (closer to a penny a message than to a
dollar a message), and won't be subverted by spammers using fake
postage, used postage, hijacked machines, and a dozen other scams we
haven't thought of yet.

Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY
http://www.taugh.com

PS: This discussion reminds me of people saying that current
automobiles are unsatisfactory because the fuel is dirty and
expensive, therefore future cars will run on water.  Water is
plentiful and ecologically benign.  I don't have any idea how a
water-powered car would work and neither does anyone else, but I think
that cars will run on water anyway.

_______________________________________________
Asrg mailing list
Asrg@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/asrg