RE: [Asrg] (no subject)

"Hallam-Baker, Phillip" <pbaker@verisign.com> Tue, 27 April 2004 17:24 UTC

Received: from optimus.ietf.org (www.iesg.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA15181 for <asrg-archive@odin.ietf.org>; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 13:24:44 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BIWBO-0006OX-Mi for asrg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 13:15:46 -0400
Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3RHFkXY024576 for asrg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 13:15:46 -0400
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BIW8j-0005Ms-DU for asrg-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 13:13:01 -0400
Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA14237 for <asrg-web-archive@ietf.org>; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 13:12:57 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BIW8f-0006ZN-I6 for asrg-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 13:12:57 -0400
Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BIW7i-0006Ru-00 for asrg-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 13:11:59 -0400
Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BIW6j-0006Jk-00 for asrg-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 13:10:57 -0400
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BIVtF-0001sJ-Hv; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 12:57:01 -0400
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BIVkh-0007pP-FS for asrg@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 12:48:11 -0400
Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA12301 for <asrg@ietf.org>; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 12:48:07 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BIVkd-000467-Lv for asrg@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 12:48:07 -0400
Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BIVji-00041B-00 for asrg@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 12:47:10 -0400
Received: from peacock.verisign.com ([65.205.251.73]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BIVjK-0003wg-00 for asrg@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 12:46:46 -0400
Received: from MOU1WNEXC03.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (verisign.com [65.205.251.55]) by peacock.verisign.com (8.12.11/) with ESMTP id i3RGkkT2015392; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 09:46:46 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mou1wnexc03.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id <JPKPF2HM>; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 09:46:46 -0700
Message-ID: <C6DDA43B91BFDA49AA2F1E473732113E5DBBC3@mou1wnexm05.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com>
From: "Hallam-Baker, Phillip" <pbaker@verisign.com>
To: 'John Levine' <asrg@johnlevine.com>, asrg@ietf.org
Cc: richard_willey@symantec.com
Subject: RE: [Asrg] (no subject)
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Sender: asrg-admin@ietf.org
Errors-To: asrg-admin@ietf.org
X-BeenThere: asrg@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12
Precedence: bulk
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/asrg>, <mailto:asrg-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Id: Anti-Spam Research Group - IRTF <asrg.ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:asrg@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:asrg-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/asrg>, <mailto:asrg-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
List-Archive: <https://www1.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/asrg/>
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 09:46:41 -0700
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60

> >One set of exchanges occurs went I communicate with a 
> relatively small 
> >group of individuals with whom I have some sort of trust 
> relationship: ...
> 
> Yup.  Since spammers will try to sneak in there, you need some sort of
> hard to break authentication to identify their mail.  Maybe something
> like domain keys will do the trick.  S/MIME sure hasn't.  Any
> suggestions?

The problem with S/MIME is the distribution of keys.
The problem with anything other than S/MIME is that the mail infrastructure
is hostile to any format other than S/MIME.

Solution is to fix S/MIME IMNSHO. Possibly by adding DK functionality,
possibly by adding XKMS functionality.


> Agreed.  How much do you expect people to be willing to pay you in
> order or how many hoops will they be willing to jump through in order
> to send you important information?

People will pay zilch for sending email. Enterprises will consider a
one off or annual fee for some form of accreditation if it will 
significantly reduce cost of negotiating email interchange agreements
currently necessary due to blacklist idiocy. BTW the whole of Spain
is currently blacklisted.

> PS: This discussion reminds me of people saying that current
> automobiles are unsatisfactory because the fuel is dirty and
> expensive, therefore future cars will run on water.  Water is
> plentiful and ecologically benign.  I don't have any idea how a
> water-powered car would work and neither does anyone else, but I think
> that cars will run on water anyway.

Yep.

The problem I see here is that there is no value to adding postage 
until large numbers check, and no point checking until large numbers
pay. Any I see plenty of people who don't want to change that
situation. 

_______________________________________________
Asrg mailing list
Asrg@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/asrg