RE: [Asrg] (no subject)
Yakov Shafranovich <research@solidmatrix.com> Wed, 02 July 2003 00:21 UTC
Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA22282 for <asrg-archive@odin.ietf.org>; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 20:21:29 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19XVMt-0007Hz-GD for asrg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 01 Jul 2003 20:21:03 -0400
Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h620L30u028013 for asrg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 20:21:03 -0400
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19XVMt-0007Hk-Ck for asrg-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 01 Jul 2003 20:21:03 -0400
Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA22268; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 20:20:59 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19XVMr-00031v-00; Tue, 01 Jul 2003 20:21:01 -0400
Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19XVMq-00031s-00; Tue, 01 Jul 2003 20:21:00 -0400
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19XVMq-0007Ea-T1; Tue, 01 Jul 2003 20:21:00 -0400
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19XVMN-0007EE-QN for asrg@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 01 Jul 2003 20:20:31 -0400
Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA22252 for <asrg@ietf.org>; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 20:20:27 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19XVML-00031I-00 for asrg@ietf.org; Tue, 01 Jul 2003 20:20:29 -0400
Received: from 000-257-992.area7.spcsdns.net ([68.27.247.183] helo=68.27.247.183 ident=trilluser) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 19XVMI-00031C-00 for asrg@ietf.org; Tue, 01 Jul 2003 20:20:27 -0400
Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20030701201718.00bc0df8@std5.imagineis.com>
X-Sender: research@solidmatrix.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9
To: Mark McCarron <markmccarron_itt@hotmail.com>, danny@apache.org, asrg@ietf.org
From: Yakov Shafranovich <research@solidmatrix.com>
Subject: RE: [Asrg] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <BAY8-F77V2D1U46wgRs0001a8d0@hotmail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format="flowed"
X-MimeHeaders-Plugin-Info: v2.03.00
X-GCMulti: 1
Sender: asrg-admin@ietf.org
Errors-To: asrg-admin@ietf.org
X-BeenThere: asrg@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12
Precedence: bulk
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/asrg>, <mailto:asrg-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Id: Anti-Spam Research Group - IRTF <asrg.ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:asrg@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:asrg-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/asrg>, <mailto:asrg-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
List-Archive: <https://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/asrg/>
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 20:20:05 -0400
At 04:00 PM 7/1/2003 +0000, Mark McCarron wrote: >[..] >Thanks for your comments. My response are in the body of the message >below. This post relates to the 'GIEIS' system viewable here at: >[..] > >>From: "Danny Angus" <danny@apache.org> >>To: "Mark McCarron" <markmccarron_itt@hotmail.com>,<asrg@ietf.org> >>Subject: RE: [Asrg] (no subject) >>Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 14:33:57 +0100 >> >>Mark McCarron wrote: >> >> > SMTP is a dying >> > protocol, imagine what it would be like in 10 years? >> >>Erm .. I don't think that is quite correct, surely? >>I know that IM is growing in popularity and I wouldn't be surprised if >>SMTP was loosing "market share" but to describe what must be one of, if >>not the, most widely used internet protocols as dying is preposterous. >> >>Perhaps you could back up your claim with evidence, I'd be happy to eat >>humble pie if you're right. > >Mark's Response: > >SMTP is a dying protocol. It was never designed to handle the current >flow of email on the Internet nor provide the security for it. As long as >SMTP exists, spam, virus', worms and trojans will only grow on the >Internet to an unbelievable level. Every resolution has been attempted >and failed. Let me make this crystal clear for everyone, SMTP cannot EVER >be secured. We are rapidly coming to the point were email would be >withdrawn completely. This is not some idle threat, but a proposal >seriously being considered. Anyone who knows the technical side of SMTP, >will tell you quite clearly that the protocol itself is to blame. Spam >accounts for 30% of all traffic on the Internet now, what percentage would >it be in 10 years? >[..] It has been mentioned many times that the problem is not just SMTP - its all of Internet. The Internet including all of its protocols cannot be secured since all of the underlying protocols were developed as an open system. Getting rid of SMTP alone, will not solve the problem of underlying openness. >[..] > >> > The system we tested it on was a private network, also, it wasn't >> > using the >> > full aspects of the 'GIEIS' design. It was just a feasibility >> > test and it >> > responded well, in fact, 100%. >> >>100% of what? did you try to break it, did you try to fool it, what >>happens to mail if you launch a DOS attack on the token server? > >Mark's Response: > >Dos (denial of service) does not work on every machine. Proper security >measures eliminate this threat. Dry run 'GIEIS' for yourself, its unbreakable. "Security by obscurity" does not work - until the system is deployed in the wild, no one can calim that its secure. _______________________________________________ Asrg mailing list Asrg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/asrg
- [Asrg] (no subject) curvers
- [Asrg] (no subject) Mark McCarron
- RE: [Asrg] (no subject) Danny Angus
- RE: [Asrg] (no subject) Mark McCarron
- RE: *Suspected Spam *RE: [Asrg] (no subject) Danny Angus
- RE: [Asrg] (no subject) Yakov Shafranovich
- [Asrg] (no subject) Patrick Galvin
- [Asrg] (no subject) John Fenley
- [Asrg] (no subject) Kurt Magnusson
- [Asrg] (no subject) Kurt Magnusson
- [Asrg] (no subject) Richard Willey
- Re: [Asrg] (no subject) John Levine
- RE: [Asrg] (no subject) Hallam-Baker, Phillip
- Re: [Asrg] (no subject) Devdas Bhagat
- RE: [Asrg] (no subject) Hallam-Baker, Phillip
- Re: [Asrg] (no subject) Barry Shein
- RE: [Asrg] (no subject) Hallam-Baker, Phillip
- The end result of E-postage (was Re: [Asrg] (no s… Alan DeKok
- RE: [Asrg] (no subject) Barry Shein
- RE: [Asrg] (no subject) Hallam-Baker, Phillip
- RE: [Asrg] (no subject) Barry Shein
- Re: [Asrg] (no subject) Roger B.A. Klorese
- Re: [Asrg] (no subject) Barry Shein
- Re: [Asrg] (no subject) "Roger B.A. Klorese "
- [Asrg] E-postage from first principles John Levine
- Re: [Asrg] E-postage from first principles Jonathan Morton
- Re: [Asrg] E-postage from first principles John Levine
- Re: [Asrg] E-postage from first principles Jonathan Morton
- [Asrg] Re: Consent protocols - was E-postage John Levine
- [Asrg] Consent protocols - was E-postage David Maxwell
- [Asrg] Re: Consent protocols - was E-postage David Maxwell
- Re: [Asrg] (no subject) Barry Shein
- Re: [Asrg] E-postage from first principles Barry Shein
- Re: [Asrg] E-postage from first principles Yakov Shafranovich
- [Asrg] Re: Consent protocols - was E-postage John Levine
- Re: [Asrg] (no subject) Roger B.A. Klorese
- [Asrg] Re: Consent protocols - was E-postage John Levine
- [Asrg] Re: Consent protocols - was E-postage David Maxwell
- Re: [Asrg] (no subject) Barry Shein
- Re: [Asrg] (no subject) "Roger B.A. Klorese"
- Re: [Asrg] 3 (Message Verification) - Viability o… Jonathan Morton
- [Asrg] Re: Consent protocols - was E-postage David Maxwell
- [Asrg] (no subject) Paul Lambert