Re: [Asrg] E-postage from first principles
Barry Shein <bzs@world.std.com> Fri, 30 April 2004 02:48 UTC
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From: Barry Shein <bzs@world.std.com>
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To: John Levine <asrg@johnlevine.com>
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Subject: Re: [Asrg] E-postage from first principles
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Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 22:16:00 -0400
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I don't find compensating recipients interesting or relevant so that's a straw man. Does the post office charge postage soas to pay recipients? W/o stretching the point? Anyhow, e-postage is a way to make the price reflect the usage. Here's another simple outline that would not be subject to all these straw man arguments: 1. A stamp is a cryptographic signature identifying the ISP affixed to e-mail. 2. The certificate for creating such stamps is bought by the ISP from approved certificate-issuing authorities, much like SSL certs at least in theory. 3. The cert is issued for some rough amount of email, 100K/day, 1M/day, etc. and the price reflects that. The ISP will in some industry-agreed upon way provide some basic evidence that the cert is probably about right. This can be verified via auditing, sampling, etc., basic business records might help (everyone knows AOL has whatever, 2.5m customers, no one would believe them if they said they only plan to send 100,000 mail msgs per month, etc.) Similar sampling-based methods (to keep things reaonably honest) have been used for over 75 years for radio music royalties, also similar systems are used for trade magazines subscription/ad ratios, etc. so if you're not familiar with examples such as those look into it because it would seem to be a rich source of ideas. The important point is that you don't have to be absolutely accurate, just accurate to a degree, i.e., not buy a 100K/day cert when intending to send 10M/day. Getting caught cheating should be fairly serious. Obviously a simple mistake can be fixed etc (oh don't jump on it there are many business contracts where you have to estimate/project usage and then settle up later.) 4. Recipient ISPs (and end-users for that matter, tho it's not necessary) can verify the authenticity of certs and if they like verify that a cert hasn't been revoked (one might do this with an authority server for every 100K uses or once a day or hour, the downside isn't all that serious usually.) 5. Recipient ISPs can choose to do what they like with email msgs without good certs. They might deliver them, but they might be advised to (after some transition period) reject them because that's what would make the system work. 6. ISPs may pass these costs along to their own customers however they like, that's a marketing decision. Most likely they'd allow some number of msgs "for free" (included in basic acct fee) and charge for usage beyond that. They might sell a mailing list package for $20/mo extra that includes another 100K msgs/mo, whatever. 7. But the important point is that ISPs would be highly motivated, assuming a reasonable cert price structure, not to allow customers to send millions of msgs per day unrestrained. How they handle accidents or break-ins would be their own choice of policy, but they might be well-advised to practice some leniency if they wish to keep their customers happy. I don't see any settlements, per-message real-time interactions, onerous book-keeping, etc in any of that. -Barry Shein Software Tool & Die | bzs@TheWorld.com | http://www.TheWorld.com Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202 | Login: 617-739-WRLD The World | Public Access Internet | Since 1989 *oo* _______________________________________________ Asrg mailing list Asrg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/asrg
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- RE: [Asrg] (no subject) Danny Angus
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- RE: *Suspected Spam *RE: [Asrg] (no subject) Danny Angus
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- [Asrg] (no subject) Kurt Magnusson
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- [Asrg] (no subject) Richard Willey
- Re: [Asrg] (no subject) John Levine
- RE: [Asrg] (no subject) Hallam-Baker, Phillip
- Re: [Asrg] (no subject) Devdas Bhagat
- RE: [Asrg] (no subject) Hallam-Baker, Phillip
- Re: [Asrg] (no subject) Barry Shein
- RE: [Asrg] (no subject) Hallam-Baker, Phillip
- The end result of E-postage (was Re: [Asrg] (no s… Alan DeKok
- RE: [Asrg] (no subject) Barry Shein
- RE: [Asrg] (no subject) Hallam-Baker, Phillip
- RE: [Asrg] (no subject) Barry Shein
- Re: [Asrg] (no subject) Roger B.A. Klorese
- Re: [Asrg] (no subject) Barry Shein
- Re: [Asrg] (no subject) "Roger B.A. Klorese "
- [Asrg] E-postage from first principles John Levine
- Re: [Asrg] E-postage from first principles Jonathan Morton
- Re: [Asrg] E-postage from first principles John Levine
- Re: [Asrg] E-postage from first principles Jonathan Morton
- [Asrg] Re: Consent protocols - was E-postage John Levine
- [Asrg] Consent protocols - was E-postage David Maxwell
- [Asrg] Re: Consent protocols - was E-postage David Maxwell
- Re: [Asrg] (no subject) Barry Shein
- Re: [Asrg] E-postage from first principles Barry Shein
- Re: [Asrg] E-postage from first principles Yakov Shafranovich
- [Asrg] Re: Consent protocols - was E-postage John Levine
- Re: [Asrg] (no subject) Roger B.A. Klorese
- [Asrg] Re: Consent protocols - was E-postage John Levine
- [Asrg] Re: Consent protocols - was E-postage David Maxwell
- Re: [Asrg] (no subject) Barry Shein
- Re: [Asrg] (no subject) "Roger B.A. Klorese"
- Re: [Asrg] 3 (Message Verification) - Viability o… Jonathan Morton
- [Asrg] Re: Consent protocols - was E-postage David Maxwell
- [Asrg] (no subject) Paul Lambert