IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [DNSOP] [EXT] Re: draft-schanzen-gns and draft-ietf-dns-alt-tld

Joe Abley <jabley@hopcount.ca> Mon, 08 August 2022 07:42 UTC

Return-Path: <jabley@hopcount.ca>
X-Original-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DF16C15C500 for <dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 8 Aug 2022 00:42:04 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.104
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.104 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=hopcount.ca
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id F93cfuim-enD for <dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 8 Aug 2022 00:42:00 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-ej1-x62b.google.com (mail-ej1-x62b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::62b]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6D120C15AE3C for <dnsop@ietf.org>; Mon, 8 Aug 2022 00:42:00 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-ej1-x62b.google.com with SMTP id y13so14960542ejp.13 for <dnsop@ietf.org>; Mon, 08 Aug 2022 00:42:00 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=hopcount.ca; s=google; h=to:in-reply-to:cc:references:message-id:date:subject:mime-version :from:content-transfer-encoding:from:to:cc; bh=jLWxzvH8WyB4lgBQsONytg+XWmK2sxzi/0FDln5t6iE=; b=W4RiSpIQC4Z3EajltTqcCyv2IDoEm8IdyFpFX7Ao4vCtqsILt6vB1xM8CAWUCA1+uS tLUZBZCC96ZyVu3RedIQ8N3u0324xSLEb1IO5X2xKcbS9DDsISL7Ntlr+DZU0dvm5k8h zWO7n28JSePtSUtvChIiqvMrRtgiAxO5qwwhc=
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=to:in-reply-to:cc:references:message-id:date:subject:mime-version :from:content-transfer-encoding:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc; bh=jLWxzvH8WyB4lgBQsONytg+XWmK2sxzi/0FDln5t6iE=; b=SoTcVRbz8xPQq11tDE5cXqm3xd+tia755C1DAonhUWIXDzc9YlU/DNKMcRvMJMi1Pk zTIT0lgHlwidyOpsA2Xn17MLsifiwjUBF1YAAODGGHPOEgQMU86JMsmWcGOlWAft6zSS 0Qh1JSVvq9hoAtr7jJyEgWPuKx/nEuvdBwBaTXL20EDGSWEm4v5sM5lrZhpUEEnwieD5 fHaycHgnPeWDOSetc6Vfc1RVMrLafihPaUxh/qUucKqTR2HX08ohDIM2yS0m/5T5z3Ry RNz1JqVoE2J2vNlrJSXcnMlAgCg0qFVSsISF9MYsBu6G94R7IyDtUQFjkHeWoegCiLc8 l45g==
X-Gm-Message-State: ACgBeo3Qg5zpTwzm5ebR36gTjeh2pOgBZXFF43BQTP96R7UhIX/BPx5q 1utg5wjRnTQXSdXty8LRCvT9Z1f47nu0B+xAg9o=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA6agR48eolUZOGF1XYsan0WfEYAWXmhPJLla5pyexlwtkHeWLOEbDNs1wDYq+PfzWcjM5baYw8WcQ==
X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:7d91:b0:731:7ecb:1e5b with SMTP id oz17-20020a1709077d9100b007317ecb1e5bmr391293ejc.78.1659944518182; Mon, 08 Aug 2022 00:41:58 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from smtpclient.apple (dhcp-077-250-046-077.chello.nl. [77.250.46.77]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ku3-20020a170907788300b006fe8ac6bc69sm4816391ejc.140.2022.08.08.00.41.56 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 08 Aug 2022 00:41:57 -0700 (PDT)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
From: Joe Abley <jabley@hopcount.ca>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0)
Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2022 09:41:56 +0200
Message-Id: <5F5F9843-078B-4716-8723-733DC2FF3726@hopcount.ca>
References: <59965e06-b0bc-5cff-98c8-4809b2d7ff39@huitema.net>
Cc: George Michaelson <ggm@algebras.org>, John Levine <johnl@taugh.com>, dnsop@ietf.org
In-Reply-To: <59965e06-b0bc-5cff-98c8-4809b2d7ff39@huitema.net>
To: Christian Huitema <huitema@huitema.net>
X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (19G71)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dnsop/-Cb-mfgI-Hb8FFlXsxwuhS4mef8>
Subject: Re: [DNSOP] [EXT] Re: draft-schanzen-gns and draft-ietf-dns-alt-tld
X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list <dnsop.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dnsop>, <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dnsop/>
List-Post: <mailto:dnsop@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop>, <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2022 07:42:04 -0000

On Aug 8, 2022, at 08:08, Christian Huitema <huitema@huitema.net> wrote:

> The name space is "almost" unitary. People deploy things like domain suffix search lists so that users can type "mailserver" and arrive at "mailserver.corp.example.com" -- or something else, depending where they started for.

There are also private, isolated namespaces; namespaces whose attached RDATA exists but looks different depending on who is asking (and when); names that are blocked in some places but not others; collisions between names; and no doubt other sources of incoherence.

There one namespace in the DNS like there is one namespace in IP, which is to say there are multiple and many namespaces that are challenging to count or characterise with accuracy. 

What the DNS (domain name) and IP (address) namespaces have in common is that they look unitary so long as the common intersection of all the namespaces appears large to end users. 

We should perhaps remember that the ship has already sailed on there being a single DNS namespace and that what we are really concerned with preserving is that the illusion that it has not. 


Joe

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email