Re: [DNSOP] draft-schanzen-gns and draft-ietf-dns-alt-tld

Peter Thomassen <peter@desec.io> Mon, 01 August 2022 20:58 UTC

Return-Path: <peter@desec.io>
X-Original-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DEAAC15C50D; Mon, 1 Aug 2022 13:58:00 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.911
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.911 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=a4a.de
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YLiiiNfohB4s; Mon, 1 Aug 2022 13:57:55 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail.a4a.de (mail.a4a.de [IPv6:2a01:4f8:10a:1d5c:8000::8]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 735FCC14EB1E; Mon, 1 Aug 2022 13:57:55 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=a4a.de; s=20170825; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:In-Reply-To:Subject:From :References:Cc:To:MIME-Version:Date:Message-ID:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=J0EXr1wKwxsASxV76ea1w+kB94bFSVqMhkeEtGpBewU=; b=bF+kzAnEzkc7+DoH/JLHytkfS4 3ATSixKjpdGJu/HyWzdTGkPfSUT04+VIcBpl9NM+7zFtZP7diiVG5YTpKq+BGJYeI2MEHOsg7P+Gt Zb+PoN3OQ8oGbg8A7EXlVi4ceCDqAsgFZr8f3awQdvJoKk8Wbr+xmwiOZRuARJCNBFJs3+s8rhltf 2pNSMe0/v7Dh8tnAmCqXmGH3WO7xitW9KU6plCrL7chLtUCll1ClEXvo0w7f+gidwZ4BjbPcu6OCq xkrYIPT4EVKBvpBvOFgdsSIOvm6m8irEo8lz+1hiGHLXNSUgwKd0FEeMyJgPfWwjKscux550niftx 9W7x6DnA==;
Received: from [2a00:20:c046:71e8:2a35:d124:f768:9f6a] by mail.a4a.de with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <peter@desec.io>) id 1oIcU3-0005gc-Be; Mon, 01 Aug 2022 22:57:51 +0200
Message-ID: <cbdbda5b-c3a9-8b8d-95a5-2fb00f25bd7c@desec.io>
Date: Mon, 01 Aug 2022 16:57:45 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.11.0
Content-Language: en-US
To: Paul Vixie <paul=40redbarn.org@dmarc.ietf.org>, Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@nic.fr>
Cc: "Independent Submissions Editor (Eliot Lear)" <rfc-ise@rfc-editor.org>, dnsop@ietf.org
References: <91abb9ac-9d3b-87bf-5639-174581d625fd@rfc-editor.org> <YufxYmxz9L8zG9hS@nic.fr> <c338de29-4408-409c-317d-caf99494a512@redbarn.org>
From: Peter Thomassen <peter@desec.io>
In-Reply-To: <c338de29-4408-409c-317d-caf99494a512@redbarn.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dnsop/VwLr9m3JSl5HzFRS1-Howq_8JWY>
Subject: Re: [DNSOP] draft-schanzen-gns and draft-ietf-dns-alt-tld
X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list <dnsop.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dnsop>, <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dnsop/>
List-Post: <mailto:dnsop@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop>, <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Aug 2022 20:58:00 -0000

On 8/1/22 12:01, Paul Vixie wrote:
>>
>> I agree and I think publication of these drafts would be a good idea
>> (may be with status Experimental since, as Joe Abley said, there is
>> clearly no IETF consensus). Note that I am skeptical about their use:
>> most people who "preempt" .eth, .bitcoin, .web3 or .myownprotocol will
>> not read the RFC and, if they do, won't follow it. But at least we
>> will be able to say that we tried and we have a solution (and not a
>> ridiculous one such as "pay ICANN 185 000 US $").
> 
> +1. the namespace will be locally augmented. we should describe a way.

I agree, too.

> i'm particularly interested in whether the root zone should have an NS for the private-label tld(s) (.alt or ._alt or whatever)

Not sure if ._alt vs .alt has been discussed (in that case I've missed it.)

I'd like to use the opportunity to refer to using _* labels (such as ._myownprotocol): https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dnsop/vQCi5ibTXw6Vfr2gbTnk-D5jcW0/ It addresses some (not all) of Martin's concerns.

The OP wrote:
> TLD labels that begin with _

(Note the plural.) Perhaps that was intended to mean those _*-style TLDs.

> with an NS of "localhost" and a dnssec "opt out" indicator so that these private tlds can fit into the authenticity infrastructure.

That's one way. OTOH, if we specify _* as non-DNS use, resolver could just "know". (That does not preclude also doing what you're suggesting.)

~Peter

-- 
https://desec.io/