IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [Gendispatch] Updating the IETF Discussion List Charter (was: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-eggert-bcp45bis-02.txt)

Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com> Sun, 26 June 2022 21:58 UTC

Return-Path: <moore@network-heretics.com>
X-Original-To: gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86A8DC14F6EC for <gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 26 Jun 2022 14:58:29 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -8.783
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.783 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-1.876, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_NONE=0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Po5FjsP6BQWf for <gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 26 Jun 2022 14:58:25 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from wout1-smtp.messagingengine.com (wout1-smtp.messagingengine.com [64.147.123.24]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7830FC14F612 for <gendispatch@ietf.org>; Sun, 26 Jun 2022 14:58:23 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from compute2.internal (compute2.nyi.internal [10.202.2.46]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CA4F32007F9; Sun, 26 Jun 2022 17:58:17 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute2.internal (MEProxy); Sun, 26 Jun 2022 17:58:17 -0400
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:cc:content-type:date:date:feedback-id :feedback-id:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id :mime-version:references:reply-to:sender:subject:subject:to:to :x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s= fm2; t=1656280696; x=1656367096; bh=uHzw6IdOW11ecpgkDGbVkDikCm58 sWTSn/yvUyHMPIg=; b=Yk0n9mZotF6NCd6n5XJkK6hMangEij6AmzwOT+K0Egpv sKspL7S+g1Uyht7qqGTDbS/OLL0MnrjSZx0KRVGLg7mWp4FQryBnK/t2TCX9881n oB/AoTAFj0zQoMkQeoGecs/dpx7z/y8bqjwahg0Txe7w/FMzm1id7ryBbTFGlOIV qZD3A9pPC30Mbb2qCEeYlt9P2F3YUKa/OniFI5+674QcNAuwT6fOquWXiu5k+6rf k9DLH79JPozcRX/a0C7jEtjO+eU3egYIgybo1Av9TPYI9UtuLWcGXTckRUcx5AvY Fzblc68j9rUAUyKWh61Dgl3VxVcy/vmAZ+NSdeMKvQ==
X-ME-Sender: <xms:eNa4YoLDchzIAa1KZUiD1S0prnIbxkQ-sAKc2L0jUOkThZajZn0VGQ> <xme:eNa4YoImUnhF06vLpQo0knxonje_p6YEprR5l3ST8_uecQv384R6K4Usd2iIxpckQ rI-BrgFDP46qw>
X-ME-Received: <xmr:eNa4YouJyzy9WN-q3fApG0laA3OUbrVw3Cpt5_qJpDAwBr3DOSnENSJd2kCG5gubRhDHADPslZvIHZnc2IltytYN9jI3SzGdsGUvlyDyOu_pJWi-dQKRLg>
X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvfedrudegfedgudeilecutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfgh necuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmd enucfjughrpegtkfffgggfuffvvehfhfgjsegrtderredtfeejnecuhfhrohhmpefmvghi thhhucfoohhorhgvuceomhhoohhrvgesnhgvthifohhrkhdqhhgvrhgvthhitghsrdgtoh hmqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpedtffdtvddvieefffeigffhtdduudetheeigeeviefg gfegvdekiefhheefudejteenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmh grihhlfhhrohhmpehmohhorhgvsehnvghtfihorhhkqdhhvghrvghtihgtshdrtghomh
X-ME-Proxy: <xmx:eNa4YlbeQ1tOOQmW3XlbIe-IhZ2Lu-jI-hdloPsmsY7RJq9DER3xyA> <xmx:eNa4YvayMp0WCEUnP7cAor8C6yauMpFOt-66XkO4-8nK6p9NbasCBw> <xmx:eNa4YhDTDUtg3mYc0IZ8o9rgAjpwFlPKdRGg-n-KIbxsRbzakniS7w> <xmx:eNa4Yp3nD0fXQbe1UDHad47Jw1PXo2idoveJareVQ-8Xichw1D0gPQ>
Feedback-ID: i5d8c41f0:Fastmail
Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Sun, 26 Jun 2022 17:58:16 -0400 (EDT)
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------De7DMSnFGMhTqiNaIkAdGY1S"
Message-ID: <5a12c921-6ea7-b590-7ee5-d2a83861ca52@network-heretics.com>
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2022 17:58:15 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.9.1
Content-Language: en-US
To: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
Cc: GENDISPATCH List <gendispatch@ietf.org>
References: <162444929705.22096.2956472779291079641@ietfa.amsl.com> <ED2832A3-F392-4F7F-8483-071140AB8FF6@eggert.org> <CABcZeBNewN1p4jtuo8d3VnhS1Zvs8i6E7K-0VUM1Ni4L+E9+1w@mail.gmail.com> <24281d77-97e1-0079-a2a3-718d56971350@network-heretics.com> <CABcZeBMqj34Wtis4W-tvNgmtAyXUbwvP_a61zze4REHJcy-zxw@mail.gmail.com>
From: Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>
In-Reply-To: <CABcZeBMqj34Wtis4W-tvNgmtAyXUbwvP_a61zze4REHJcy-zxw@mail.gmail.com>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/gendispatch/Shh990Kb6HUGnKEqWc9H1tj5jhE>
Subject: Re: [Gendispatch] Updating the IETF Discussion List Charter (was: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-eggert-bcp45bis-02.txt)
X-BeenThere: gendispatch@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: General Area Dispatch <gendispatch.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/gendispatch>, <mailto:gendispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/gendispatch/>
List-Post: <mailto:gendispatch@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:gendispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gendispatch>, <mailto:gendispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2022 21:58:29 -0000

On 6/26/22 17:53, Eric Rescorla wrote:

>     When a discussion is looping, and nothing new is being said, clearly
>     it's time to pause.
>
>
> I don't think I've seen anything new said on this topic in the past 
> decade.
>
> Can you give me an example of what you would consider new?

Conditions have changed, and I think attitudes have also changed.   
There's a greater realization now that we've really lost something that 
we used to have in the IETF list.   And slight differences in proposals 
can make a significant difference in the outcome.   Just because 
something has been discussed in the distant past doesn't mean it should 
never be discussed again.

Keith

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email