IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [Gendispatch] Updating the IETF Discussion List Charter (was: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-eggert-bcp45bis-02.txt)

Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie> Sat, 25 June 2022 00:30 UTC

Return-Path: <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
X-Original-To: gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCD62C15A72A for <gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 24 Jun 2022 17:30:51 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -3.886
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.886 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-1.876, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=cs.tcd.ie
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id t_awEpqu-8_1 for <gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 24 Jun 2022 17:30:46 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from EUR05-DB8-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-db8eur05on2134.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.20.134]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 94D54C15A72B for <gendispatch@ietf.org>; Fri, 24 Jun 2022 17:30:45 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=A2xPmSwf8rIIKgV9aFCNzU9GaQFxQUSNZXCNHp90G2utiK19Hhcyjby8m5xelJpm5ZqZxZuAEVqRPVh9YK2noH/CSNXaukVViRAFvcus3zeY+EKETCbThiaiE/njx2YBQDZFzJ6oMd8BbztgO3N+sVb/LysFBT1pSC9LQywkmqpcNQZvfGBsqyTAUW23K47b/0J6wf1CsymxOu5wMOrkSx5Qkq39w+A3/lwBOIA5+xOtHJ8rINRZh76nUQJJusv85bp+RkNaMaCWZbwu8cyOWw6MNEWsQIlW1s3PmaAYjqGzJM2ldlehNEH2UpVf4ekX0qhIq2CemobYuuyEkOS/mQ==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=Qcqwoi4e6tVbvuiVTdPhbcnh70b/M3TAN66CMrshmnc=; b=A575q8AT3FxifazFdqs92sIE1//jT/adVCs4eTpBQhhx5Z99jwWmJMGnRR0t8RFIJmlSvTnXvr3InkCT+cwH7VO5kcUOiVlatY9yX80QBuceYB3qHKyedmV45HTM0TIi/+dtsaPiJl/wSx4J4zkUo50IlBq80+UvK8C6P+awLiUX/0wrAgkh3oYtJs7OkOQKNlhxS7tuMH87LoWHmLlTof7N8MwVWqL5VA8uxnW9iT0548klX0XqhG7fixHx7qRGapHjVQv8hn90MS3d+lkrpoltHq5LJ2JKJT8aOthPd7jEZ56efzGWhOQhpGUWk2H6a6zOdFoY4Gx4etHJfdjlmw==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=cs.tcd.ie; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=cs.tcd.ie; dkim=pass header.d=cs.tcd.ie; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cs.tcd.ie; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=Qcqwoi4e6tVbvuiVTdPhbcnh70b/M3TAN66CMrshmnc=; b=CRCUGbtfjkmpQwK+yuZLP74RYKfLV5eBCDlzOin0U5zLZ6fFgjoPSPqa+4PnY/Y/1jbCOlGRWvNJd7IHbM4A+RdSfpnK7wEIdGgoW8/EETi929eDIkHySADFXT/r4vwOfbukF0K2LiRijoOLU2gUGjhNVRDYTngC+iNUQ76RJWtWLUmbPBz5FUa8enPtZDXFy2zjXqDdZe8AOIDGe9aJs4G3XQ65n8T1XVVVkQNjyknTlDLVEnJoINWDFUhufZpS3HqRfD8wuujjj6FbaoYLDiYf7/fbC8xDUYKDywwp8tlHLQBGJPRtz1T4W5FFRbivrTBrMrI4ZcQalgZbD3iySA==
Authentication-Results: dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;dmarc=none action=none header.from=cs.tcd.ie;
Received: from DB7PR02MB5113.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:10:77::15) by DU0PR02MB8689.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:10:3ec::11) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.5373.17; Sat, 25 Jun 2022 00:30:39 +0000
Received: from DB7PR02MB5113.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::8491:63e9:5e84:2d61]) by DB7PR02MB5113.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::8491:63e9:5e84:2d61%6]) with mapi id 15.20.5373.015; Sat, 25 Jun 2022 00:30:39 +0000
Message-ID: <bbafcb27-cf1d-665b-785c-137d4d20e2a9@cs.tcd.ie>
Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2022 01:30:37 +0100
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.9.1
Content-Language: en-US
To: Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>, gendispatch@ietf.org
References: <162444929705.22096.2956472779291079641@ietfa.amsl.com> <ED2832A3-F392-4F7F-8483-071140AB8FF6@eggert.org> <07736465-1FEB-4419-B6F5-B18ABB23865C@eggert.org> <CAChr6SzvXDxzi49ZG3oCJGVDh03iSOMgVVqj4EaOUM9TsJxFgQ@mail.gmail.com> <cfac3427-510b-fcf0-fdce-e1b3b7908a52@network-heretics.com>
From: Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
In-Reply-To: <cfac3427-510b-fcf0-fdce-e1b3b7908a52@network-heretics.com>
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha256"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------uPwfvFN36Zsp0DwQ0MAXMaqL"
X-ClientProxiedBy: DB6PR0501CA0040.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:4:67::26) To DB7PR02MB5113.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:10:77::15)
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1
X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email
X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: 521d03bb-d1f6-42b3-c879-08da5641edc9
X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: DU0PR02MB8689:EE_
X-MS-Exchange-SharedMailbox-RoutingAgent-Processed: True
X-TCD-Routed-via-EOP: Routed via EOP
X-TCD-ROUTED: Passed-Transport-Routing-Rules
X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck: 1
X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-Relay: 0
X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0;
X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: 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
X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:DB7PR02MB5113.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(13230016)(4636009)(346002)(39860400002)(366004)(376002)(396003)(136003)(6512007)(33964004)(6506007)(31686004)(38100700002)(83380400001)(53546011)(478600001)(36756003)(41300700001)(66476007)(316002)(15650500001)(8676002)(21480400003)(2906002)(6486002)(66946007)(31696002)(66556008)(235185007)(44832011)(2616005)(8936002)(186003)(786003)(86362001)(5660300002)(43740500002)(45980500001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102;
X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1
X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0: 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
X-OriginatorOrg: cs.tcd.ie
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 521d03bb-d1f6-42b3-c879-08da5641edc9
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: DB7PR02MB5113.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Jun 2022 00:30:39.1758 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: d595be8d-b306-45f4-8064-9e5b82fbe52b
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-MailboxType: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-UserPrincipalName: 33Dm2uOEF9F34UIAnsWL6jPniC/cJl+pNYylfQr5hFqGVNq235CYSsVUbo0U5LbG
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DU0PR02MB8689
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/gendispatch/iLpbelMfzfFhfXgWuTnqwu-e8JM>
Subject: Re: [Gendispatch] Updating the IETF Discussion List Charter (was: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-eggert-bcp45bis-02.txt)
X-BeenThere: gendispatch@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: General Area Dispatch <gendispatch.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/gendispatch>, <mailto:gendispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/gendispatch/>
List-Post: <mailto:gendispatch@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:gendispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gendispatch>, <mailto:gendispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2022 00:30:51 -0000

I don't agree with everything Keith is saying in this thread.
(I probably do though disagree with most things Rob is saying
in this same thread;-)

But, the above isn't that important, I think what's below is
moreso:

On 24/06/2022 05:29, Keith Moore wrote:
> IMO it's long past time to stop trying to kill IETF's sense of community 
> and high time to start trying to restore one. 

I very strongly agree with the above. There are quite a few
aspects of that diminishing "sense of community" that could
be teased out, but IMO it'd likely be more productive to try
foster such things than dissect and try reconstruct 'em.

Cheers,
S.

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email