Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/no go for IETF 100
"Mani, Mehdi" <Mehdi.Mani@itron.com> Tue, 31 January 2017 08:51 UTC
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From: "Mani, Mehdi" <Mehdi.Mani@itron.com>
To: "MH Michael Hammer (5304)" <MHammer@ag.com>
Subject: Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/no go for IETF 100
Thread-Topic: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/no go for IETF 100
Thread-Index: AQHRttJGPI2Wo2VamUWlJf0d/t6g/KFRbwdAgAJgFx2AAAG5gA==
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2017 08:51:41 +0000
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Cc: "Thompson, Jeff" <jefft0@remap.ucla.edu>, "recentattendees@ietf.org" <recentattendees@ietf.org>, James Seng <james.seng@gmail.com>, "Ietf@Ietf. Org" <ietf@ietf.org>
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Sent from my iPhone On 31 Jan 2017, at 09:45, Mani, Mehdi <Mehdi.Mani@itron.com<mailto:Mehdi.Mani@itron.com>> wrote: Dear all, As an european holding a french passport with my origin coming from Iran i cannot travel to US with this executive order of Mr Trump even if i work for an American company. So i beleive as well that meeting venues should not be any more in US with such à discriminatory law. Regards Mehdi Sent from my iPhone On 30 Jan 2017, at 20:58, MH Michael Hammer (5304) <MHammer@ag.com<mailto:MHammer@ag.com>> wrote: James, Seeing as the email you chose to quote was a response to my email from May 27th, 2016, I’m left trying to decide if you were responding specifically to my comments or that earlier thread in general. I still stand by my statements even if it means that the ultimate IETF decision is not to hold meetings in the USA – I think your prognostication unfortunately was correct. I was not being rhetorical in my earlier comments – We, as participants engaged in technical efforts across national boundaries need to figure out pragmatic ways of ensuring our efforts and activities continue to function despite decisions by specific localities. Looking forward, it might be reasonable for IETF to include a cancellation clause based on the government of the host country engaging in an act like the ban (after the contract has been signed.) Mike From: James Seng [mailto:james.seng@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2017 2:08 PM To: MH Michael Hammer (5304) Cc: Thompson, Jeff; Dan Harkins; recentattendees@ietf.org<mailto:recentattendees@ietf.org>; Ietf@Ietf. Org Subject: Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/no go for IETF 100 I rescind my previous comment that the scenario I painted is rhetorical. None of our US fellow IETFers here have any moral authority to talk about "inclusive" ever again. -James Seng On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 5:44 AM, James Seng <james.seng@gmail.com<mailto:james.seng@gmail.com>> wrote: Since after 9-11, things have change a lot for United States[1]. Especially for TSA, I remember going to SFO the first time after 9-11, it took me 2 hours just to clear the security and I missed my flight. I also remember pre 9-11, I could get into US for less than 15-20mins. Now, for my American friends who pay in the price in time, let me tell you what we non-American citizen has to do to get into US after 9-11. We have been tagged, photographed, fingerprinted, all our 10 fingers every time we have to enter US. We have been systematically profiled, often by racial or nationality, and some of us have to go through enhanced body-to-body search everytime we cross security. I was put in a "Muslim" basket been a Malaysian for a while so ... And we have to do it with a smile because if any of us pull of a stunt like Aaron Tobey[2], we could be denied our entry and possibility forever. My wife complains that the over the last decade I have put on a lot of weight and asked me to check my photos. Unfortunately, I don't like selfie nor do I like to take pictures of myself. But I told her not to worry as TSA has a complete profile of me becoming fat over the years. Today, we all saw a US President may-to-be calling up to forbid Muslim to enter US, to build walls to prevent people from the south, who threaten to get even tougher to foreigners. So by the same principle that Jeff is advocate, that we hold IETF meeting where "law declares some people less valid", I prognosticate we may no longer able to hold our meetings in US. [1] http://www.ibtimes.com/pulse/united-states-after-911-6-things-have-changed-2001-2093156<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ibtimes.com_pulse_united-2Dstates-2Dafter-2D911-2D6-2Dthings-2Dhave-2Dchanged-2D2001-2D2093156&d=DwMGaQ&c=pqcuzKEN_84c78MOSc5_fw&r=Epy6n6lZ-_AtB6Unawan0zjIdEv95r_5HxuTpDOXS88&m=YG0d5xRrune4H9v4a848Pf_VWTMitYGP8HqzQqCQN5E&s=Yzj0fbZhvJhg19Bg1FPqtgOEC-mi-w-DrzRixinhIvs&e=> [2] http://dailylounge.com/the-daily/entry/how-to-fight-the-tsa<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__dailylounge.com_the-2Ddaily_entry_how-2Dto-2Dfight-2Dthe-2Dtsa&d=DwMGaQ&c=pqcuzKEN_84c78MOSc5_fw&r=Epy6n6lZ-_AtB6Unawan0zjIdEv95r_5HxuTpDOXS88&m=YG0d5xRrune4H9v4a848Pf_VWTMitYGP8HqzQqCQN5E&s=g_53wMutlPRDKVPqYeBXsEmlpC-4Myw9QU4812CwH1A&e=> ps: This is rhetorical to put any doubt in rest. I love US even though getting there is still a pain for me. -James Seng On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 9:34 PM, MH Michael Hammer (5304) <MHammer@ag.com<mailto:MHammer@ag.com>> wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: ietf [mailto:ietf-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:ietf-bounces@ietf.org>] On Behalf Of Thompson, Jeff > Sent: Friday, May 27, 2016 3:55 AM > To: Dan Harkins > Cc: recentattendees@ietf.org<mailto:recentattendees@ietf.org>; Ietf@Ietf. Org > Subject: Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/no go for IETF > 100 > > On 2016/5/26, 21:11:51, "Recentattendees on behalf of Dan Harkins" > <recentattendees-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:recentattendees-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of dharkins@lounge.org<mailto:dharkins@lounge.org>> > wrote: > > > I would also like to suggest that the ability of certain members to > >bring their family on a vacation that coincides with an IETF should not > >be a governing factor in venue selection. Many people like to launder a > >business trip into a family vacation (myself > >included!) but that's not why the IETF exists and it should have no > >bearing on where we meet. > > So then, the IETF policy would read ³The IETF may hold meetings in countries > where the law declares some people less valid. If you are such a person, then > the IETF recommends that to avoid trouble with the law you should hide who > you are, including not bringing your family.² > > Is this the organization that the IETF is going to be? > > - Jeff > Jeff, Is there any country in the world that meets the standard your comment implies should be the IETF policy? Is this a case of perfection being the enemy of good? Perhaps it is a case of perfection being the enemy of reality. I don't know what IETF policy should be but I do recognize that there are very real limitations that constrain choices. I'll also point out that the choices made will constrain the choices of participants. I'm not advocating for any particular choice by the IETF with regard to meeting locations. Mike _______________________________________________ Recentattendees mailing list Recentattendees@ietf.org<mailto:Recentattendees@ietf.org> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/recentattendees<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_recentattendees&d=DwMGaQ&c=pqcuzKEN_84c78MOSc5_fw&r=Epy6n6lZ-_AtB6Unawan0zjIdEv95r_5HxuTpDOXS88&m=YG0d5xRrune4H9v4a848Pf_VWTMitYGP8HqzQqCQN5E&s=IbrWLu7DYbdtAsLRNOqj9FIMn8BuytPgAY3QQ-34hu4&e=> -- -James Seng -- -James Seng _______________________________________________ Recentattendees mailing list Recentattendees@ietf.org<mailto:Recentattendees@ietf.org> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_recentattendees&d=DwICAg&c=pqcuzKEN_84c78MOSc5_fw&r=Epy6n6lZ-_AtB6Unawan0zjIdEv95r_5HxuTpDOXS88&m=YG0d5xRrune4H9v4a848Pf_VWTMitYGP8HqzQqCQN5E&s=IbrWLu7DYbdtAsLRNOqj9FIMn8BuytPgAY3QQ-34hu4&e=
- Background on Singapore go/no go for IETF 100 IAOC Chair
- Re: Background on Singapore go/no go for IETF 100 George Michaelson
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… James Seng
- Re: Background on Singapore go/no go for IETF 100 Ted Hardie
- Re: Background on Singapore go/no go for IETF 100 Margaret Cullen
- Re: Background on Singapore go/no go for IETF 100 Benson Schliesser
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Marie-Jose Montpetit
- Re: Background on Singapore go/no go for IETF 100 Benson Schliesser
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Jakob Heitz
- Re: Background on Singapore go/no go for IETF 100 Ted Hardie
- Re: Background on Singapore go/no go for IETF 100 Benson Schliesser
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Tony Rutkowski
- Re: [E] Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singa… Gross, Scott W
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Ted Lemon
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Lixia Zhang
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Xiaohong Deng
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Melinda Shore
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Mark Nottingham
- RE: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Jose Saldana
- Re: Background on Singapore go/no go for IETF 100 tom p.
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Masataka Ohta
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Ole Troan
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… otroan
- Re: Background on Singapore go/no go for IETF 100 Leslie Daigle
- Re: Background on Singapore go/no go for IETF 100 Dhruv Dhody
- Re: Background on Singapore go/no go for IETF 100 Michael Richardson
- RE: Background on Singapore go/no go for IETF 100 Hutton, Andrew
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Ted Lemon
- Re: Background on Singapore go/no go for IETF 100 nalini.elkins
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Yoav Nir
- Re: Background on Singapore go/no go for IETF 100 Harish Pillay
- Re: [Mtgvenue] Background on Singapore go/no go f… Ole Jacobsen
- Re: Background on Singapore go/no go for IETF 100 tom p.
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Masataka Ohta
- Re: Background on Singapore go/no go for IETF 100 nalini.elkins
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Ted Hardie
- Re: [Mtgvenue] Background on Singapore go/no go f… Yoav Nir
- Re: [Mtgvenue] Background on Singapore go/no go f… nalini.elkins
- Re: [Mtgvenue] Background on Singapore go/no go f… Ole Jacobsen
- Re: Background on Singapore go/no go for IETF 100 Barry Raveendran Greene
- Re: [Mtgvenue] Background on Singapore go/no go f… nalini.elkins
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Fred Baker (fred)
- Re: [Mtgvenue] Background on Singapore go/no go f… Ted Lemon
- Re: Background on Singapore go/no go for IETF 100 Barry Raveendran Greene
- Re: [Mtgvenue] Background on Singapore go/no go f… Melinda Shore
- RE: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang
- Re: [Mtgvenue] Background on Singapore go/no go f… nalini.elkins
- Re: [Mtgvenue] Background on Singapore go/no go f… Melinda Shore
- Re: [Mtgvenue] Background on Singapore go/no go f… Ole Jacobsen
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Fred Baker (fred)
- Re: [Mtgvenue] Background on Singapore go/no go f… nalini.elkins
- Re: Background on Singapore go/no go for IETF 100 Lawrence Conroy
- Re: [Mtgvenue] Background on Singapore go/no go f… Niels ten Oever
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Ted Hardie
- Re: [Mtgvenue] Background on Singapore go/no go f… Melinda Shore
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Dave Crocker
- Re: Background on Singapore go/no go for IETF 100 Melinda Shore
- Re: Background on Singapore go/no go for IETF 100 Dave Crocker
- Re: Background on Singapore go/no go for IETF 100 Jeffrey Haas
- Re: [Mtgvenue] Background on Singapore go/no go f… John C Klensin
- Re: Background on Singapore go/no go for IETF 100 Niels ten Oever
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Keith Moore
- RE: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Carlos Martinez
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Melinda Shore
- IETF-100 maybe it's mostly been said? (Was: Re: [… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Tony Rutkowski
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Keith Moore
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Lloyd Wood
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Joel Snyder
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Joe Abley
- Re: IETF-100 maybe it's mostly been said? (Was: R… Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… James Seng
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Fernando Gont
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Aaron Morgan
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Derek Jett
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… lloyd.wood
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Dan Harkins
- Why we meet (was Re: [Recentattendees] Background… Melinda Shore
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Bert Wijnen (IETF)
- Re: Background on Singapore go/no go for IETF 100 Masataka Ohta
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Lloyd Wood
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Thompson, Jeff
- RE: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… MH Michael Hammer (5304)
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… PEDRO ANDRES ARANDA GUTIERREZ
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… John C Klensin
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Leslie Daigle
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Dave Crocker
- Re: Background on Singapore go/no go for IETF 100 Marc Blanchet
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Leslie Daigle
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Donald Eastlake
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Margaret Cullen
- Success metrics Re: [Recentattendees] Background … Bill Mills
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Rich Kulawiec
- RE: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Michael StJohns
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… kathleen.moriarty.ietf
- Value of meeting attendance (was Re: [Recentatten… Melinda Shore
- RE: Value of meeting attendance (was Re: [Recenta… Christer Holmberg
- RE: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Jamie Baxter
- RE: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Dave Hood
- Re: Value of meeting attendance (was Re: [Recenta… Stephen Strowes
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… James Seng
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Robert O'Callahan
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Masataka Ohta
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Fernando Gont
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Value of meeting attendance (was Re: [Recenta… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Fernando Gont
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Melinda Shore
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Marie-Jose Montpetit
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Michal Krsek
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… John C Klensin
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Yoav Nir
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… lloyd.wood
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… lloyd.wood
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… lloyd.wood
- RE: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… MH Michael Hammer (5304)
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Ted Lemon
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… John Levine
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… John Levine
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… James Seng
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… John C Klensin
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Rich Kulawiec
- RE: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… MH Michael Hammer (5304)
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Mani, Mehdi
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Mani, Mehdi
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Naeem Khademi
- RE: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Mani, Mehdi
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- RE: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Alexander Nevalennyy
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Yoav Nir
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Yoav Nir
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- RE: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… MH Michael Hammer (5304)
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Mary B
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- RE: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… MH Michael Hammer (5304)
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Eggert, Lars
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Yoav Nir
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Michael StJohns
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… David Morris
- RE: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Randal Atkinson
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Tim Chown
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… nalini.elkins
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… John C Klensin
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Tim Chown
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Naeem Khademi
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Brian Ford (brford)