Re: [saag] [Pearg] Ten years after Snowden (2013 - 2023), is IETF keeping its promises?

[Kyle Rose <[e-mail]>]

On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 8:20 AM Brad Chen
<bradchen=[e-mail]> wrote:
>
> I question whether the IETF has the competence to unilaterally determine policy in this space. Recent comments on this thread reassure me that some of us are at least equipped to recognize the limits of our competence and to recognize the discretion that the IETF needs to exercise in how we impact policy.
>
> The right to privacy has never been absolute. The tension between privacy, free expression and the public right to know represents some of the most challenging questions in moral philosophy and law. When we pretend we can unilaterally establish policy through technology, we demonstrate our incompetence with regards to disciplines like law and moral philosophy.
>
> For people interested in the legal and historical background on the right to privacy, Amy Gajda's book "Seek and Hide" is excellent. Regarding the philosophical foundations of rights and responsibilities, Onora O'Neill has published a book "A Philosopher Looks at Digital Communications" that provides a gentle introduction to the basics, with some more thorough treatment in her book "Justice without Boundaries." A foundational source is Immanuel Kant's "Groundwork for the Metaphysics of Morals" which is not for the meek.
>
> The direction explored on this thread represents a tremendous and important task. I'm pretty sure the way to fail is for engineers to go it alone. To be competent, we need to figure out how to recognize the relevance of disciplines like law and philosophy and history, and how to benefit from their perspective on these issues.

Agreed. I made a similar point a few years back that I continue to
stand by, and it applies here as well:

> I would strongly argue that our first
> duty is to solve technical problems, not societal ones: as a group, I don't
> think we're particularly good at the latter; we greatly overestimate the
> impact of protocol design on public policy; and frankly there are
> organizations better positioned, staffed, and aligned to do those things.

https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/N2-Md_fLKq1zPq6OouXAKLrvH5k/

Kyle