Re: Tolerance
"John Levine" <johnl@taugh.com> Tue, 16 July 2019 23:11 UTC
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Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2019 19:11:11 -0400
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From: John Levine <johnl@taugh.com>
To: ietf@ietf.org
Cc: douglasroyer@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Tolerance
In-Reply-To: <00dcede6-11a0-6a33-d4b4-ceb413f22874@gmail.com>
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In article <00dcede6-11a0-6a33-d4b4-ceb413f22874@gmail.com> you write: >Given that, then the next decision is: Can you work with less than perfect people? I can. Others can. If a person can not, then the IETF is not the place to post, because it is full of less than perfect people. "I put up with it and so can you" is not a great strategy for the long term health of the IETF. There is quite a wide gap between people being perfect and people acting the way some IETFers do. The ombudsbeings ocasionally have a chat with me and while I can't say I enjoy it, we've always concluded amicably and it hasn't affected my ability to say that bad ideas are bad ideas. It may be instructive to look at M3AAWG which also has three meetings a year, e-mail discussions between meetings, and people much like the IETF, indeed a fair number of the same people. A few years ago after some bad experiences at the conference social events, they made a conscious decision that they wanted an environment where nobody was threatened and people worked together respectfully. They put together a very reasonable code of conduct, and enforced it. A few people never got the hint and were sent home (no great loss) but the effect is that people work at least as well together, women don't have to worry that they'll be hit on if they join a conversation in the bar, and the overall feel is the same but perhaps a little more relaxed. We're also well positioned to welcome and get work from people who are not old white guys. Perhaps coincidentally, there are a lot more women attending and doing work than at the IETF. What does M3AAWG know that we don't? The conduct policy is here: https://www.m3aawg.org/conduct-policy R's, John
- Tolerance Ole Troan
- Re: Tolerance Eliot Lear
- Re: Tolerance Alissa Cooper
- Re: Tolerance lloyd.wood
- Re: Tolerance Michael StJohns
- Re: Tolerance Melinda Shore
- Re: Tolerance Michael StJohns
- Re: Tolerance Melinda Shore
- Re: Tolerance Keith Moore
- Re: Tolerance Jacob Hoffman-Andrews
- Re: Tolerance Keith Moore
- Re: Tolerance Dave Cridland
- Re: Tolerance Keith Moore
- Re: Tolerance Michael StJohns
- Re: Tolerance Dave Cridland
- Re: Tolerance Dave Cridland
- Re: Tolerance Keith Moore
- RE: Tolerance Rob Wilton (rwilton)
- Re: Tolerance Keith Moore
- Re: Tolerance Jacob Hoffman-Andrews
- Re: Tolerance Doug Royer
- Re: Tolerance Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Tolerance Andrew G. Malis
- Re: Tolerance Richard Barnes
- Re: Tolerance Keith Moore
- Re: Tolerance Doug Royer
- Re: Tolerance Melinda Shore
- Re: Tolerance John Levine
- Re: Tolerance Keith Moore
- Re: Tolerance Salz, Rich
- Re: Tolerance Ross Finlayson
- Re: Tolerance Melinda Shore
- Re: Tolerance Jacob Hoffman-Andrews
- Re: Tolerance Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Tolerance Keith Moore
- Re: Tolerance Nick Hilliard
- Re: Tolerance Keith Moore
- Re: Tolerance Carsten Bormann
- Re: Tolerance Ted Lemon
- Re: Tolerance Keith Moore
- Re: Tolerance S Moonesamy
- Re: Tolerance Keith Moore
- Re: Tolerance Ted Lemon
- Re: Tolerance Keith Moore
- Re: Tolerance ned+ietf
- Re: Tolerance John Levine
- Re: Tolerance Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Tolerance Keith Moore
- Celebrating NAT Was: Tolerance Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Integrating NAT [was Re: Celebrating NAT Was: Tol… Brian E Carpenter
- lies about URNs (was Re: Celebrating NAT) Keith Moore
- Re: lies about URNs (was Re: Celebrating NAT) Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: lies about URNs (was Re: Celebrating NAT) Keith Moore
- Re: lies about URNs (was Re: Celebrating NAT) Jared Mauch
- Re: lies about URNs (was Re: Celebrating NAT) Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: lies about URNs (was Re: Celebrating NAT) Matthew A. Miller
- Re: Celebrating NAT Was: Tolerance Nico Williams
- Re: Celebrating NAT Was: Tolerance Ross Finlayson
- Re: Celebrating NAT Was: Tolerance Keith Moore
- Re: Celebrating NAT Was: Tolerance Jared Mauch
- Re: Integrating NAT [was Re: Celebrating NAT Was:… Phillip Hallam-Baker