IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: Tolerance

Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com> Wed, 17 July 2019 12:40 UTC

Return-Path: <mellon@fugue.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A73B81200A3 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 05:40:13 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.899
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6OSCYg7SxTIf for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 05:40:11 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-qk1-x731.google.com (mail-qk1-x731.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::731]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A824D120094 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 05:40:11 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-qk1-x731.google.com with SMTP id g18so17323352qkl.3 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 05:40:11 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=yCtRvBgbu3TczmhrrDIImHJTqPWX/MebXTbcMlnYFac=; b=WIlXUdItxwlQLZeMvGilFOco90nX//EW+ZJxcpOb25uZ2coDIjrsWrXa74CFf7Ya8W 0sI00W17zhQvwO2JwjTR4My2ZVe8gCMTNLZQ/67k72K7i7hxwGiD1KAyn5ET8nCUWI7P pdhODuw8ZLuiyqmZx74sSqbqff4Y4kTVc3XXJAWNGusio3z/zLXdyKcCX4+9YETMQiww rweMZP1LaVbt8aR1BHNJWINSXi6BXzZY0pMcbmnAG2BV0iPuQe4Xzfk8ukVN9auHa9np ROqiseybkMmKsmI5B4Q44p1MgK+KGH5Gp1pC5Y8Wm/PZkvagpfbv0pRaw7VX8RPG6sZX U8tg==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=yCtRvBgbu3TczmhrrDIImHJTqPWX/MebXTbcMlnYFac=; b=qxzgyfApHXzPROABdFrW7pWtodFca1qSv5bxppf730/eMviXCsJ29BzLEdPAIp5RDU hjn+FVg/DymFRZAB4yQHh5cQDRdFlhjHoHDK+1IdiVpRjqtKuKzyJPlkKTRbDuYIttYO PcM7xmH7441Gum41AVvQJholhdGM0XuO6nJ/hwO/0kb1rNi/62qrPnJK3ZZoUfU/wJa5 1bUSNBQjpSHdRX88moY90wMINEzEQbjosEaZIWNPiY9lpewdbsaGgL+HaSxIx/4Gv7+q tSLoNa2Wsmm0enYT0MkaQ+1X7q/3uiyJzgQBGNEAc2K/zR7gX8LMa1rhkm93AzY4pL5S 53ew==
X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUtKXYMt9qvQ1onQGpbqM/j6sVNDEvrvmjGVgVtLdCx+Lgk8EOG Ox3oKvkfjzxtR+3Gr8mIe/Sbb+4b/8c=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxFE5fr3XZwOcQAblvUwKfNHfk8Xuf6bFdomvw86cI6Gcj8RdBY5WaakLB+rYGBN4Vwkvf8LA==
X-Received: by 2002:a37:97c5:: with SMTP id z188mr27633883qkd.5.1563367210579; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 05:40:10 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [10.0.100.13] (c-73-186-137-119.hsd1.nh.comcast.net. [73.186.137.119]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k33sm12090959qte.69.2019.07.17.05.40.09 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 17 Jul 2019 05:40:09 -0700 (PDT)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0)
Subject: Re: Tolerance
From: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (16G75)
In-Reply-To: <841CD2B2-6837-4B79-91DA-A5128AE73062@tzi.org>
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2019 08:40:08 -0400
Cc: Nick Hilliard <nick@foobar.org>, IETF Discussion Mailing List <ietf@ietf.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <76FC7C0B-C5B0-42D2-94D3-A5DB7968E60A@fugue.com>
References: <6EB5A0D4-DC17-40A8-B144-DC28F81C576A@employees.org> <A6135702-2156-48F1-A5D3-5F5EAE1B12B3@cooperw.in> <e24cae63-1a9b-7160-73cc-77c29e479eed@comcast.net> <9447eb2b-fd9f-4fa7-8e07-0bc0ad118292@gmail.com> <560a8a2b-3ece-4db9-4bf8-f16acbdc27a4@comcast.net> <ac5eec46-85d9-835a-fc53-02bb97fd25ab@gmail.com> <3b5c74d6-e219-512d-1c02-c7c66ca2573e@eff.org> <52052311-c9ed-7bbb-7f7e-edc1b0119075@network-heretics.com> <dcd35f0b-2388-ffbe-2feb-7bb6268e3cf5@eff.org> <02d3fb41-553a-eaf3-e77b-4918955ead48@gmail.com> <CAA=duU145Niuk1UtjvtM+R+LeL4jsE19Vb5=MWkV1MVmgA-LRQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAL02cgQsz=tgU6xCA5h+kV5HApZfpuU59stEmkmOpcsd2WzsUw@mail.gmail.com> <00dcede6-11a0-6a33-d4b4-ceb413f22874@gmail.com> <21fa0425-ca36-6f65-0585-2ddc64f368db@gmail.com> <6da50179-4ac4-f65b-1ebf-0e08b8c05e2e@network-heretics.com> <c4a93a79-b61e-0544-430f-4e102bf856db@foobar.org> <841CD2B2-6837-4B79-91DA-A5128AE73062@tzi.org>
To: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/sy1-HLhf3-aIKiGtRKpBZRBlhSw>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2019 12:40:14 -0000

FWIW, the thing that makes it hardest to participate in the IETF are the long threads that never go anywhere. They serve as a DoS attack on the entire IETF. I realize hit may sound hypocritical for me to say this, since i offend in this way from time to time.  Hostility is a huge problem and I don’t mean to minimize it, but I think this is arguably worse. 

Please think of your audience.  If you are adding to the conversation, great.  If you are just communicating because you feel unsatisfied but have nothing really new to add, there is almost certainly some better (less expensive) way to satisfy that need. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 17, 2019, at 5:55 AM, Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> wrote:
> 
>> On Jul 17, 2019, at 09:43, Nick Hilliard <nick@foobar.org> wrote:
>> 
>> I know of many people in the operational community who either don't contribute or who no longer contribute to IETF discussions because of perceived hostility.
> 
> Is that because of perceived hostility in tone or maybe because of perceived hostility towards their ideas (i.e., IETF is going to ignore their points anyway)?
> 
> Grüße, Carsten
>

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email