Re: Tolerance

Melinda Shore <melinda.shore@gmail.com> Tue, 16 July 2019 23:09 UTC

Return-Path: <melinda.shore@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15C19120045 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 16 Jul 2019 16:09:13 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.999
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bXdZzCPq4DcW for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 16 Jul 2019 16:09:11 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-pl1-x62c.google.com (mail-pl1-x62c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::62c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 495A412002F for <ietf@ietf.org>; Tue, 16 Jul 2019 16:09:11 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-pl1-x62c.google.com with SMTP id b3so10893085plr.4 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Tue, 16 Jul 2019 16:09:11 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=7uNqcpgQYan4TGE88HbyuM73yMllBW36nFxwPjMmcZ4=; b=fQG2MGSui8N1gdxxXxp2bqgUXNBZTy0ZeypCEaZLXxSOmRnZOd0YIluRDeE5x/nHS2 X/pgWNtAtLUfj8AiqZmmccsZN4Xob8dDTyRIQKQwSaRdpy3LBIuxsBLRGenzFNJIlkQs MLwRDFfRNfLRR3QJiIEceHvZEK6ZwYen7ycWQf43x6nycYA6bMKePhsDt2DirMs7/pQe vJ9kw6k/2VNNnEQLaui0px7eCY49oQCFM9QftVfZpFKBpCeiq5oWXFLSSLsFer2YrWsF lYC/UHRIhApF1RuzvGX4yo3NNLjIOTZWmEJ+yPupb9kBuoxW+8UgPzXjIctCEowzGPsn ZyTg==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=7uNqcpgQYan4TGE88HbyuM73yMllBW36nFxwPjMmcZ4=; b=m5XgugdP5E42RbqRvMo4hLe4/cLBkquok3TiBgR3Uw7diaDr8xlv4V9/8dcHYmr4TO gTnW5uAlwZ+N5y0IOQBz1rFLq7PBiVg1X2yQ0mFWuURQLsi9H8DQgAyLsEybGsj3MpFN rs48q7OpzAGVVHsoBjdJkd367yA6Qg7lV8p2SeIhPqWkdFIjKnBJgcISTb8Ahx1OvcF4 2RXHw8mTbAqOUElmfvrZiRwjKDXAfGrZDSN8F1YaSllgvCf47nOHFMcX6T2Z3NZJX0in 1HTu4tizm5MiycJdwICGvlAjROwZ79H3WbAdONRDiyPfZsd8jFydZZIb5xDmy0GSCvrd n+vw==
X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAU9auO5adI41oo4FqDUahlsi+CV0Gyoki6hViC8+sOAxjtM6A5V uhQ6WbPjkpI8s4jrrpseHj2DVpz6
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyRsUmcfYaNi1GgozGLjpnd3J1EEHs8sC7/2SNrXL0LnEvgJz6qYw0Ma/i1P9b10EOlQL3VJA==
X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:ac85:: with SMTP id h5mr39337881plr.198.1563318550369; Tue, 16 Jul 2019 16:09:10 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from aspen.local (63-140-64-252.dynamic.lte.acsalaska.net. [63.140.64.252]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a6sm20412054pjs.31.2019.07.16.16.09.09 for <ietf@ietf.org> (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 16 Jul 2019 16:09:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Tolerance
To: ietf@ietf.org
References: <6EB5A0D4-DC17-40A8-B144-DC28F81C576A@employees.org> <A6135702-2156-48F1-A5D3-5F5EAE1B12B3@cooperw.in> <e24cae63-1a9b-7160-73cc-77c29e479eed@comcast.net> <9447eb2b-fd9f-4fa7-8e07-0bc0ad118292@gmail.com> <560a8a2b-3ece-4db9-4bf8-f16acbdc27a4@comcast.net> <ac5eec46-85d9-835a-fc53-02bb97fd25ab@gmail.com> <3b5c74d6-e219-512d-1c02-c7c66ca2573e@eff.org> <52052311-c9ed-7bbb-7f7e-edc1b0119075@network-heretics.com> <dcd35f0b-2388-ffbe-2feb-7bb6268e3cf5@eff.org> <02d3fb41-553a-eaf3-e77b-4918955ead48@gmail.com> <CAA=duU145Niuk1UtjvtM+R+LeL4jsE19Vb5=MWkV1MVmgA-LRQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAL02cgQsz=tgU6xCA5h+kV5HApZfpuU59stEmkmOpcsd2WzsUw@mail.gmail.com> <00dcede6-11a0-6a33-d4b4-ceb413f22874@gmail.com>
From: Melinda Shore <melinda.shore@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <21fa0425-ca36-6f65-0585-2ddc64f368db@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2019 15:09:07 -0800
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.8.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <00dcede6-11a0-6a33-d4b4-ceb413f22874@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/FMlbdtyudQj2maZomdp5Kh0NcWg>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2019 23:09:13 -0000

On 7/16/19 2:39 PM, Doug Royer wrote:
> You can not achieve your goal when you quit. How important are your
> goals to you?

It seems to me that driving away people with energy and
ideas because they're not willing to deal with the tone of
discussions here (and let's be clear: there are no longer
very many organizations in which abusive language or behavior
is tolerated) and leave, either to focus on implementation
or to take their work to another body, the IETF is the loser,
not the person who left.  I worry about several factors
degrading the quality of our output and this is certainly one
of them.

Melinda


-- 
Melinda Shore
melinda.shore@gmail.com

Software longa, hardware brevis