Re: IAOC Request for community feedback
Michael StJohns <mstjohns@comcast.net> Tue, 23 October 2012 17:20 UTC
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Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 13:16:05 -0400
To: The IAOC <bob.hinden@gmail.com>, ietf@ietf.org
From: Michael StJohns <mstjohns@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: IAOC Request for community feedback
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Wait just one minute..... Marshal has neither resigned nor died (both of which would vacate the position). He apparently *has* abrogated his responsibilities. I'm not sure why the IAOC thinks that the recall procedure shouldn't be followed. Get a petition signed. Run a 1 week call for volunteers. Do the recall committee selection prior to the IETF, present your case to the recall committee at the IETF and stand back and let them do the work. I appreciate the pain of having a member go AWOL, but I see no basis for declaring the position vacant based on current practice. I would consider that your email constitutes evidence that the IAOC has asked for a recall petition to be circulated. I would consider that the list of grievances you've posted constitutes sufficient grounds for the petition. I would estimate that you have sufficient support for the petition to be confirmed, but I don't see anything so critical that would suggest that the recall process need not be followed. I'm willing to sign on to the petition. I'm willing to volunteer for the recall committee. Mike At 07:49 PM 10/22/2012, The IAOC wrote: >The IAOC is requesting feedback from the community concerning a >vacancy that the IAOC feels is not adequately covered by existing IETF >rules. > >Marshall Eubanks has been a active IETF participant for many years and >a member of the IAOC since 2009. However, he recently stopped >participating in the IAOC and Trust. The IAOC has made extensive >efforts to contact Marshall about this, but has not received any >response. Given the size of the IAOC, a missing member makes it much >harder to get a quorum. The specifics of his absence include: > >- Missed the IAOC calls on 11 October 2012, 10 September 2012, > 6 September 2012, 23 August 2012 > >- No email received from Marshall since 1 August 2012 on the IAOC, > IETF Trust, and related private lists. > >Marshall is subscribed to the IAOC and IETF Trust lists and >consequently should have received email discussing regular >IAOC/Trust business including email on this topic. > >We have tried to contact Marshall over this time period using email 14 >times, telephone 6 times (leaving messages), SMS messages seven times, >Linkedin messages once, Facebook messages once, and registered postal >mail twice. We have not received any response from Marshall. It is >also our understanding that Marshall has stopped participating in >other IETF lists and stopped working on IDs he authored. > >On 6 September 2012 the IAOC appointed a replacement liaison to the >IETF NomCom after learning from the NomCom chair that Marshall had not >responded to emails from the NomCom chair. > >Based on all of this, the IAOC has concluded that Marshall's IAOC position >is vacant. > >The IAOC has reviewed BCP101 and concludes it does not handle this >case very well. BCP101 says that if "an IAOC member abrogates his or >her duties" the recall process in BCP10/RFC3777 may be used. The >specific text is: > > IAOC members are subject to recall in the event that an IAOC member > abrogates his or her duties or acts against the best interests of the > IETF community. Any appointed IAOC member, including any appointed > by the IAB, IESG, or ISOC Board of Trustees, may be recalled using > the recall procedure defined in RFC 3777 [RFC3777]. IAOC members are > not, however, subject to recall by the bodies that appointed them. > > If a vacancy occurs among the appointed members, this is filled by > the appointing body for that position according to its procedures. > >The conditions for determining that a vacancy exist are not well-defined. > >BCP10/RFC3777 (Section 7) defines a process where a recall petition is >signed by 20 NomCom qualified IETFers, the petition is sent to the >ISOC President, the ISOC President appoints a recall committee chair, >the chair follows normal NomCom procedures to select 20 committee >members (this includes a public call for volunteers, max of two per >organization, random selection of volunteers, etc.), recall committee >investigates, recall committee votes and requires a 3/4 majority to >pass the recall. > >We think this process was not intended to be used when a sitting IAOC, >IESG, or IAB member vacates his/her position. We believe that the >intended use of this process was for determining whether a member >should leave a position who is unwilling to leave and who has harmed >the IETF. That is clearly not the case in this situation, to the >contrary, we would have preferred Marshall to continue. It doesn't >seem appropriate in this case, or when an member is unable to >participate due to illness or death. > >The IAOC believes that it is reasonable to declare Marshall's IAOC >position vacant and, therefore, to ask NomCom to fill his position for >the remainder of his term (~15 months.) > >The IAOC is requesting feedback from the community whether it is >reasonable to declare Marshall's IAOC position vacant. Responses are >solicited by no later than 5 November 2012. If there is not community >support for this approach, the IAOC will pursue the BCP10/RFC3777 >recall petition path because having a missing member for 15 months >significantly effects the operation of the IAOC and IETF Trust. > >Please send your comments to <ietf@ietf.org>. > >The IAOC and IETF chairs will review the community feedback and make a >determination if there is support for declaring the position vacant. > >I would add that we all feel very badly for Marshall given his many >years of service to the IETF. We really don't understand why he is not >responding and are concerned about it. Unfortunately, we don't know >what else to do given his lack of response to our many attempts to >contact him. > >Bob Hinden >IAOC Chair > >p.s. A draft is in progress that proposes an update to >BCP10/RFC3777 similar to what we propose here to handle how cases of >vacancy be handled. The issue applies to the IAB, IESG, and the IAOC. >An announcement will be sent when that is available.
- Re: IAOC Request for community feedback Barry Leiba
- Re: IAOC Request for community feedback Barry Leiba
- Re: IAOC Request for community feedback Eggert, Lars
- Re: IAOC Request for community feedback Alessandro Vesely
- Re: IAOC Request for community feedback Yoav Nir
- RE: IAOC Request for community feedback Adrian Farrel
- Re: IAOC Request for community feedback Rumbidzayi Gadhula
- Re: IAOC Request for community feedback Pelletier Ray
- Re: IAOC Request for community feedback Noel Chiappa
- Re: IAOC Request for community feedback Rumbidzayi Gadhula
- Re: IAOC Request for community feedback Jari Arkko
- Re: IAOC Request for community feedback Stephen Farrell
- Re: IAOC Request for community feedback John Leslie
- Re: IAOC Request for community feedback Bob Hinden
- Re: IAOC Request for community feedback Michael StJohns
- Re: IAOC Request for community feedback Noel Chiappa
- Re: IAOC Request for community feedback SM
- Re: IAOC Request for community feedback Olafur Gudmundsson
- Re: IAOC Request for community feedback Michael StJohns
- Re: IAOC Request for community feedback Doug Barton
- Re: IAOC Request for community feedback Tobias Gondrom
- Re: IAOC Request for community feedback Noel Chiappa
- Re: IAOC Request for community feedback Doug Barton
- Re: IAOC Request for community feedback David Kessens
- Re: IAOC Request for community feedback Doug Barton
- Re: IAOC Request for community feedback Paul Hoffman
- Re: IAOC Request for community feedback Henk Uijterwaal
- Re: IAOC Request for community feedback Michael StJohns
- Re: IAOC Request for community feedback Bob Hinden
- Re: IAOC Request for community feedback joel jaeggli
- Re: IAOC Request for community feedback joel jaeggli
- Re: IAOC Request for community feedback SM
- Re: IAOC Request for community feedback Doug Barton
- Just so I'm clear (was: IAOC Request for communit… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: Just so I'm clear Doug Barton
- Re: Just so I'm clear Eliot Lear
- Re: Just so I'm clear Doug Barton
- Re: Just so I'm clear Melinda Shore
- Re: IAOC Request for community feedback Brian E Carpenter
- Re: IAOC Request for community feedback edj.etc
- Re: IAOC Request for community feedback David Morris
- Re: Just so I'm clear Margaret Wasserman
- Re: IAOC Request for community feedback Bob Hinden
- Just so I'm clear (was: IAOC Request for communit… Andrew Sullivan
- RE: IAOC Request for community feedback Tony Hain
- Re: Just so I'm clear Doug Barton
- Re: Just so I'm clear Martin Rex
- Re: Just so I'm clear Mark Andrews
- Re: rules for the sake of rules, was Just so I'm … John Levine
- Re: Just so I'm clear Yoav Nir
- Re: Just so I'm clear Brian E Carpenter
- Re: IAOC Request for community feedback Tina TSOU
- RE: Just so I'm clear Tony Hain
- Re: Just so I'm clear Doug Barton
- Re: Just so I'm clear Michael StJohns
- Re: Just so I'm clear Melinda Shore
- Re: Just so I'm clear Michael StJohns
- Re: Just so I'm clear Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Just so I'm clear Doug Barton
- Re: Just so I'm clear David Morris
- Re: IAOC Request for community feedback Olaf Kolkman
- Re: IAOC Request for community feedback Dale R. Worley
- Re: IAOC Request for community feedback Turchanyi Geza
- Re: IAOC Request for community feedback Bob Hinden
- Re: IAOC Request for community feedback Bob Hinden
- Re: IAOC Request for community feedback Doug Barton