Re: [Int-area] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-intarea-frag-fragile-16: (with COMMENT)

Fred Baker <fredbaker.ietf@gmail.com> Wed, 04 September 2019 18:05 UTC

Return-Path: <fredbaker.ietf@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 346BC120B52; Wed, 4 Sep 2019 11:05:38 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.997
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6L474XIY6oO3; Wed, 4 Sep 2019 11:05:36 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-wm1-x32b.google.com (mail-wm1-x32b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::32b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 076EB120B3B; Wed, 4 Sep 2019 11:05:36 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-wm1-x32b.google.com with SMTP id t17so4293429wmi.2; Wed, 04 Sep 2019 11:05:35 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to :date:cc:message-id:references:to; bh=Xtu8PI3EI1zjNq68y+EArpZgMf9Qbtokb39eq5mMTTk=; b=cb8ofkdNT5HVbNJ4yhhfb4S/Jfsbn+QEq2WIy7ui6YuBRsEkJO5yX5FmiD4mFoAl4p ZVPY6KiLFlK2pBunUAHFEqbQhEOjngRhBQZkaATIUpEes/5jfx6uE5PKbeQBgwXlyGPr LWHTA3pRGV7CN7t1sin4UpUVqj3eEYu/Ou7BtgK2Jzjql+Waz7D9y7UqrAYGVUVnhor2 Eim9twIruSpp+OnJdNh3bFTzg98W9KxE93CZfZmjXaFcIpJLLGMO6p5v04Sz/Lrfrzb4 gc6Gs6DwjLRTAuf1Y5etuAXRs2OVwoouOKWXPbEx9In8rjlNpC9hUp5+ecRenpM0S+KH 1BkQ==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject :from:in-reply-to:date:cc:message-id:references:to; bh=Xtu8PI3EI1zjNq68y+EArpZgMf9Qbtokb39eq5mMTTk=; b=iUf+bOpQG2ZBUifY77S79yTUY5inWyKwgGZn5c6ChZuWmVUTxUi3WfeU8+Yj1kwFV9 zyBLEhOgk18+5lRjqsH2BHdNj9OMJQ/YJfSRpCwn4MelQiCCpqKydz1LUWkqf3UrvGDE WIPCpLvq0n18TnV9e0FiPTr2bkPcJL6ckuIH5DH4GiGJSLRaANEt2FTvT9MZ/MR+v/XG 2VJm3JLr0m1/UO9vHz1hUVw9goUlvM3okenj/HX/MEmBn5PhQBhPeKmd6Hx4f93mH5I7 nY/zStGTf+9vLnKyuqv8ikuIjAYdL4n1sDPOZ1Wuv0X5wsjCFCHDhC0yt7uyGfQaTqiZ 9haw==
X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVWbnEVViZPwHKBZKlghb3qQzcW2b5MIbmyDpTN/ew8vOqBqZ0H HBEa+Oua2JCXi4I/iRKxxIU=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzECerX9j6BJByT5i8VdPhkY95bNyHBNtB1KWnQDIkjHD86CYDw1oWR49cHcj3WFMTJYcl4FQ==
X-Received: by 2002:a7b:c7d9:: with SMTP id z25mr3949590wmk.130.1567620334523; Wed, 04 Sep 2019 11:05:34 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [192.168.1.28] ([82.222.102.151]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 2sm4760237wmz.16.2019.09.04.11.05.33 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 04 Sep 2019 11:05:33 -0700 (PDT)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0)
From: Fred Baker <fredbaker.ietf@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <B7C5DF29-92B2-477B-9C30-F47E338038EE@strayalpha.com>
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2019 21:05:32 +0300
Cc: Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, Joel Halpern <joel.halpern@ericsson.com>, draft-ietf-intarea-frag-fragile@ietf.org, int-area@ietf.org, intarea-chairs@ietf.org
Message-Id: <77DA3ACF-33BC-428F-BE29-B365C5895B81@gmail.com>
References: <B7C5DF29-92B2-477B-9C30-F47E338038EE@strayalpha.com>
To: Joe Touch <touch@strayalpha.com>
X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (17A5821e)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/int-area/njlKP2pphnX4SqMxvQOXRrsyvbk>
Subject: Re: [Int-area] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-intarea-frag-fragile-16: (with COMMENT)
X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List <int-area.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/int-area>, <mailto:int-area-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/int-area/>
List-Post: <mailto:int-area@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:int-area-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area>, <mailto:int-area-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2019 18:05:38 -0000

I did some of the edits, so I’ll respond. Alissa issues a comment. We also got several other comments over the summer. This update responds to a set of comments. I’m on vacation and mostly out of contact, so my co-authors will need to proceed as appropriate. But this was NOT a matter of one person commenting and unrelated edits happening.

For the record, I agree that fragmentation will in fact be used by applications and transports that are using it now, unless and until they are changed. Expecting otherwise is a fool’s errand. Hence, while there are known problems with it, fragmentation and reassembly MAY be used. I don’t think anyone is disputing that.

Sent using a machine that autocorrects in interesting ways...

> On Sep 3, 2019, at 5:06 PM, Joe Touch <touch@strayalpha.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi, all,
> 
> So let me see if I understand:
> 
> Alissa issues a comment.
> 
> We discuss this on the list and come to a rare consensus on a way forward.
> 
> The new draft is issued that:
> 
> a) ignores the list consensus
> b) removes a paragraph not under the DISCUSS (1.1)
> c) now refers to vague “other documents” without citation
> d) most importantly:
> 
>    REMOVES a key recommendation that we MAY use frag where it works
>        
>    Asserts the false claim that IP fragmentation “will fail” in the Internet,
>    despite citing evidence that the *majority of the time* it does work
>        e.g., for IPv6, sec 3.9
> 
> What happened? Why is a change this substantial not reflecting the *list consensus*?
> 
> Joe
> 
>> On Sep 3, 2019, at 5:59 AM, Alissa Cooper via Datatracker <noreply@ietf.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for
>> draft-ietf-intarea-frag-fragile-16: No Objection
>> 
>> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
>> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
>> introductory paragraph, however.)
>> 
>> 
>> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
>> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
>> 
>> 
>> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-intarea-frag-fragile/
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> COMMENT:
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> Thanks for addressing my DISCUSS.
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Int-area mailing list
>> Int-area@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area
>