IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Finding leap-seconds.list

Harlan Stenn <stenn@nwtime.org> Mon, 12 November 2018 23:26 UTC

Return-Path: <stenn@nwtime.org>
X-Original-To: ntp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ntp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9C2C130E68 for <ntp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2018 15:26:51 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.9
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3k8M7zCzI4-f for <ntp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2018 15:26:50 -0800 (PST)
Received: from chessie.everett.org (chessie.everett.org [66.220.13.234]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0C31E130E0C for <ntp@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Nov 2018 15:26:49 -0800 (PST)
Received: from hms-mbp11.pfcs.com (75-139-194-196.dhcp.knwc.wa.charter.com [75.139.194.196]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by chessie.everett.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 42v6N82ySxzL7K; Mon, 12 Nov 2018 23:26:48 +0000 (UTC)
To: Hal Murray <hmurray@megapathdsl.net>, Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com>
Cc: ntp@ietf.org
References: <20181112204109.7383F40605C@ip-64-139-1-69.sjc.megapath.net>
From: Harlan Stenn <stenn@nwtime.org>
Openpgp: preference=signencrypt
Autocrypt: addr=stenn@nwtime.org; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsDNBFI2xmQBDACrPayw18eU4pIwCvKh7k0iMkAV9cvzs49kBppM+xoH+KKj4QWmkKELD39H ngQnT3RkKsTLlwxyLqPdUmeQNAY2M5fsOK+OF6EvwLPK9hbmE3Wx2moX+sbEUxJ2VzFhKSKb OPZALXwk1XxL0qBedz0xHYcDwaSAZZkEFXURv2pDIdrmnoUnq2gdC8GpoFJiXoUaCLSYzzaY ac4Njw7Mue8IqfzRQb70aMjXl/qmsmfmEVAyGXywDdc/ler4XSgiuYOV7Kf69bj9PFZZSMdJ MWgEyZH6lJ0TU5ccR2zp5ZRmWzQQkxJMyH2th7q0Nmz3aX4A0K4yE0Ba9/5Dr7ctpF15BrMF aEo4s5lwI6tUnkgMWo265mMzCz4mAPV/ac0w0OXQg7r9E2r0+dRapnzUlG43D0JLDqDr9uRR L6IrRQqoCWUC75lfmPYQYSlaTJaK68r3lXd0z1cXJUgVtEL5H3/Z71R2B20twcQVAnw2iIH6 L5vdrsIjHrMmkqRVbs9nNyEAEQEAAc0nSGFybGFuIE0gU3Rlbm4gKFBGQ1MpIDxoYXJsYW5A cGZjcy5jb20+wsD8BBMBAgAmAhsvBwsJCAcDAgEGFQgCCQoLBBYCAwECHgECF4AFAlI2xr0C GQEACgkQyIwAt1pH+kDfsQv/Q8fSJks4uNNyLf0O2kX9cepWExSTBpSgc1wsr65ldAx3fuPT ci+gymO0qs1PlGYPYuMFEVmIRpJFy/tUVXZIGIZtlOURAHXjov0NbdwyZnOahEaja3jL+bBH GGJpRtmD+CCAVkj1UEUNF2mLqUgwEQarvHLCI6j1xz5+kxzdXsF3jVAlLMRkpScOfZ2NiHq7 Dp8ClCcEALI+lU2sUIP8dGTqNCM03ma0M5T53PIzkD8tRMNa5Dznv6E3+eFE6xefm5uMzCWs XEzxxaaoVnkoFxyrJpHBkDuIl5MKhcyG0lcmmVeM35MoZpJXE6fgqvbq9XZccSQUcpY1OrwM mc2CjjTsm5K9IFDyD7yRA6xh4Z/ExSFBnwky2JwMJtJgqDRsLFkSvYCq+m+Zc3YWP8rGbmdR Lk57eZ3hdt9MuUX879LyjAKHWm5aFbCs5vsq2n8XWrxJMVHVOUy5pQlzAz5fa+5yjba9YM7L 4DMefzQZ9Q3P+TfBofmsQSbH54rkK/WAzsDNBFI2xmQBDADXLsBkI7CSa5UXlrNVFJQHER1V xRBKqjWWCh/8Qv9v3p3NrIc2UnhoZ1uWQ2voBGty5Xfy9k4afV5kWwDyRDUIb7PX+Tj4HjVV r7qvnOVe/0KzZpNq0Azd0ggFbsM+8mydktHIwJykW0NUsGwPRYuDOA0Lro0ohb5IiCt3sSQi 1X1hYjo7O1Vmn8Gy/XYOnhnMux+5zDPO2yTkCNX5PocYi9IJJy6pMq1yQV4Y2Dl8KtQzvtq5 5vCUxx6n0MMzFViGwNW6F4ge9ItO4tDScsgowDrHa208ehwOpv/iwjf93lCClQ6vaKmOBX87 2K/tdY/hwhxPPjgl1bcrOwMRYVemOPPehwnXH5bwclk1hvDQdkJQ5pJOkE4VCryTF/iDAt4g 2QnHocUwt3b6/ChUUWmj2GZ22OR12rbnCtLedwp0DpViKPUCQHBOvpgXdzE/L9zWar9fqM0E REMgfWbsJc9028qluCcFLIN1gYsq4cC+YGAcOu7HOI5orBBV4m9jXfsAEQEAAcLCfgQYAQIA CQUCUjbGZAIbLgGpCRDIjAC3Wkf6QMDdIAQZAQIABgUCUjbGZAAKCRDfCQ/G52/8P/uWDACe 7OEM+VETDRqjQgAwzX+RjCVPvtgrqc1SExS0fV7i1mUUxr/B8io3Y1cRHFoFKmedxf8prHZq 316Md5u4egjFdTT6ZqEqkK0hvv+i0pRpCa5EX9VIStcJStomZp8FcY34grA+EOWITaLQ4qNZ UP7rf2e7gq1ubQTj7uLr6HZZvMZ5em+IvrOWEuWDI6yOiI6px04wRDfkoR2h6kgdw4V0PT4N jK9WYYKrVCf1bjLlVImNBEcXfvlUTrIYO8y6ptvoUsBQky5pQRvP99Pn42WfyLy50aII6+vy udD4T0yLjXAz4KteUttxtIte64m/F9/7GEIZAxTUcLyOq/7bP4leh39jBckwc62iYzeK/VkU /bMMh2D68Z3QylMnhhcW27BcgQHPKsHhmFa2SNytYcuQiSdf9+pj4i32ETz1nJAvYAAqgTF/ 0PL+8ZNQoEpe/n9woMKrlZrqD4EgFmhQ3bNVhlaXz1nuTZDrwPt1yMxBuUNbCF4jFnaruwrS iGTRoIfUZQwAjQglahrV4/mcjfnvbNoseHX0PKd9q+wjg7MIjWqrf2CI8Fa6MdanqwYphz43 I2yXANKFZuMWsWqyQYlvGuPUlUUcAL3stp24RkzDB1Q+JS0IZJSTT2JSu0aTfUdWVNqr2UI1 9eX+zxbOTckSi3Ng14ezG8ZX194ZH10b8JzntQOwmA20pd5JDhugzQfASER+CZDiPPcQ4mvC 4y7rMrfV6XGQbDynC3ekDxo8SC5SvjaczXMwXg6SZ8iFtEWmEwW9r7zPjjIPDrX8w5LXBgxA rM5o/HbERpc2EdAvMh1D7LC0SvmoE7fBKxsicVBe4h6vXjEZ+LLr/wuZiBld9OnxAUIpwptb BspO6WKTQYvgFH2OeDG27hiE5P4Xs4WSp5j9ez8OVB1iZnA2nCQ+tNTjO8c+C/P92vPLx5+b pGRXTXMNaLh34PS3ZsYoUDkKZNhczRZUWJ7nynSbeeyF+QW7SLwAqY7O7dyk9LFTsfJqRQJ7 tWnIAjJPCwmSgQ8Kl0UJ
Message-ID: <7b868ffd-5202-98a4-1be0-91eb9f1f002b@nwtime.org>
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 15:26:47 -0800
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.13; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.3.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <20181112204109.7383F40605C@ip-64-139-1-69.sjc.megapath.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ntp/745GCvll1VbGEEeNhspBcKk_I6I>
Subject: Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Finding leap-seconds.list
X-BeenThere: ntp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: <ntp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ntp>, <mailto:ntp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ntp/>
List-Post: <mailto:ntp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ntp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ntp>, <mailto:ntp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 23:26:52 -0000


On 11/12/18 12:41 PM, Hal Murray wrote:
> 
> imp@bsdimp.com said:
>> The deadline for #6 is leap-second day, correct? ntpd only announces an
>> impending leap second in the last 24 hours before the leap second. Or is that
>> just a reference implementation detail. When there's no leap second the
>> deadline is a few days before since that's the expiration of the previous
>> file. 
> 
> The ntpd-kernel API is "leap tonight".
> The ntpd-ntpd API is "leap at the end of this month".
> 
> A valid local leap-seconds file overrides the results from upstream servers.
> 
> I'm not sure what happens if ntpd has a valid leap-seconds file after it 
> expires.

If the file was valid but has expired, it's no longer valid.

H
--
> The early announcement on the wire gives humans a chance to verify that the servers are announcing as expected and/or maybe time to correct things if something is not right.
> 
>>>   3 TZDB releases updated copy from NIST
>>>   4  distro releases update to TZDB
>>>   5  end system picks up new TZDB from distro
>> Also, to be clear, as far as ntpd is concerned, steps 3, 4, 5 are all
>> *optional* if there's another mechanism to pull in a new leap-second.txt file
>> from elsewhere. #5 implies an upgrade of at least some of the packages on the
>> system. While that's *A* way to do it, there are other equally valid ways. We
>> should allow for the extra time, of course, for this to happen. 
> 
> Correct.
> 
> I think the timing on alternatives will be similar so I haven't explored them.  In many cases, step 3 goes away.
> 
> 
>> P.S. Sorry if I'm being too nit-picky here, but traditionally there's been a
>> wide diversity of methods for obtaining leap-seconds.txt, and it would be
>> premature to standardize on the above list. 
> 
> Doesn't look nit-picky to me.  Not even mildly so, much less "too".  Thanks for pointing it out so it gets archived.
> 
> My main goal is to avoid having every end-user workstation running a cron job pointed at some server that can't do anything about it if some distro ships a buggy version that turns into a DoS.
> 
> If your users get it from your servers, I'll be happy.
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Harlan Stenn <stenn@nwtime.org>
http://networktimefoundation.org - be a member!

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email