Re: [Ntp] Finding leap-seconds.list

On Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 7:49 PM Thomas Peterson <hidinginthebbc@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I propose the following occurs if the working group agrees:
>
> * draft-ietf-ntp-bcp is updated to remove reference to the IETF hosted
> leap second file (as has already been suggested)
> * The IETF ceases to host unpacked versions of tzdb
> * Updates sent to various other mailing lists that may be affected by this
> change (off the top of my head, tz@iana.org, pool@lists.ntp.org,
> freebsd-ports@lists.freebsd.org) as a matter of courtesy before its
> hosting is removed.
>

So what's the new place to get it if the IEFT stops hosting it? All the
'much better places' don't earlier in the thread do not resolve for me at
all (or resolved to web pages that aren't suitable for automatic
downloading). The ntp leapsecond file has a format that's been fixed for at
least two decades. So what's the real 'next step' for people that download
it outside of the TZ stuff?

This is a very disruptive change to the FreeBSD community, at least. It's
not clear what it accomplishes.

Warner

>
> Regards
>
>
> On 08/11/2018 01:28, Dieter Sibold wrote:
>
>
>
> On 8 Nov 2018, at 2:17, Denis Reilly wrote:
>
> Thomas and Martin,
>
> On doing my own research into this for the BCP, I found that the Time Zone
> database maintenance procedures are documented in BCP 175 / RFC 6557.
>
> However, after the discussion during the WG meeting, I think it's better
> to remove the mention of the leap second file hosted by the IETF in the
> BCP. As Martin notes, there are better places to get it.
>
> I agree with Denis.
>
>
> --
> Denis Reilly  |  Technical Lead  |  denis.reilly@orolia.com
> (585)321-5837
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ntp <ntp-bounces@ietf.org> <ntp-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of
> Martin Burnicki
> Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2018 1:00 PM
> To: Thomas Peterson <hidinginthebbc@gmail.com> <hidinginthebbc@gmail.com>;
> ntp@ietf.org
> Cc: Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu> <eggert@cs.ucla.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Ntp] Finding leap-seconds.list
>
> Thomas Peterson wrote:
>
> As was discussed at the working group meeting at IETF 103 [0], I have
> decided to do some research on the leap-seconds.list file that the IETF
> appears to be hosting at
> https://www.ietf.org/timezones/data/leap-seconds.list, but for some
> participants of this working group appear unclear about.
>
>
> During the IETF NTP WG session I posted a link in the chat which points to
> a PDF I wrote some time ago:
>
> https://www.meinbergglobal.com/download/burnicki/the_ntp_leap_second_file.pdf
>
> There are several "original" versions of that file published by the IERS,
> NIST, and USNO.
>
> One of those original files (usually the version from NIST) is used to
> update the TZDB records, and the original file is also included in the TZDB
> distribution/tar ball, which is then unpacked and made available at the
> IETF web site.
>
> The problem here is that first an update of the original leap second file
> appears, and only whenever the next TZDB version is released after that the
> file appears on the IETF web site.
>
> So for most users it's better to pick up a file from one of the original
> sites.
>
> Where is this referenced in an RFC or other IETF document?
> I ran a search of “leap-seconds.list” across the spread of draft and RFC
> documents. No RFC that I have found makes direct reference. However, the
> current NTP BCP draft Section 4.6 [1] contains:
>
> ... SNIP ...
>
> The IETF maintains a leap second list [[7]] for NTP users who are not
>    receiving leap second information through an automatic source.
>
>    Files are also available from other sources:
>
> ... SNIP ...
>
> With [[7]] holding reference to the file hosted at, and a list of links to
> sources.
>
> What else is www.ietf.org hosting of a similar nature?
> This file alone is not the only thing hosted under www.ietf.org, in fact
> https://www.ietf.org/timezones/ directory listings show that all recent
> versions of the tzdb (including 2018g the most recent) which suggests a
> human maintaining the hosting of it, or automated process. Versions only go
> back to 2016. These files are also available over FTP [2].
>
>
> Yes, and since the leap seconds file is part of the TZDB, it also becomes
> available via the IETF web site.
>
> How long have these files been hosted on www.ietf.org?
> Internet archive's Wayback Machine [3] shows it appearing back in 2015.
>
> Who is using the file?
> ntpd does depend on it as was discussed at the WG meeting, [4]. FreeBSD
> [5] holds reference to it and users have reported issues when being unable
> to access it in the past. In addition, at least one library [6] make use of
> it outside of ntpd, however I don't believe this is heavily used or cause
> non-developers or system administrators any pain if it went missing.
>
>
> I'm sure the file *is* heavily used, but maybe not directly from the IETF
> web site.
>
> It's a good source to become aware of an upcoming leap second, and it's a
> good source to be able to determine the current UTC/TAI offset, as e.g.
> required when using PTP which uses TAI timestamps by default.
>
> Anyway, I think the file is mostly used by NTP or PTP servers since for
> most applications the information interesting for clients can be passed via
> the individual protocols.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Martin
> --
> Martin Burnicki
>
> Senior Software Engineer
>
> MEINBERG Funkuhren GmbH & Co. KG
> Email: martin.burnicki@meinberg.de
> Phone: +49 5281 9309-414
> Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/martinburnicki/
>
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>
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