Re: [Ntp] Finding leap-seconds.list

Hello Thomas,

I am not sure whether the other files are derived from the IANA link. From what I can tell, it's probably the opposite: the files at NIST or IERS may get updated first, then they get pushed to the IANA. And the main goal of IANA's effort is keeping tzdb up to date; the leap seconds file is simply part of it.

If we mention the IANA link at all, I'd prefer language like "IANA also hosts a copy of the Leap Seconds file[1], as part of the Time Zone Database[2].", with [1] linking to https://data.iana.org/time-zones/tzdb/leap-seconds.list , and [2] linking to https://www.iana.org/time-zones . This I think makes it clear that the main role of IANA here is to maintain tzdb.

I'd prefer to leave it out entirely, though, as I did for draft -08. I think the three sources listed are good enough for the BCP. 

--
Denis Reilly  |  Technical Lead  |  denis.reilly@orolia.com  (585)321-5837

-----Original Message-----
From: ntp <ntp-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Thomas Peterson
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2018 3:04 AM
To: Dieter Sibold <dsibold.ietf@gmail.com>; Martin Burnicki <martin.burnicki@meinberg.de>
Cc: ntp@ietf.org; stenn@nwtime.org
Subject: Re: [Ntp] Finding leap-seconds.list

My apologies to all, I noticed I was looking at the older version of the draft.

With that I instead propse the IANA link referenced be mentioned first in the section covering leap seconds, as the other files are derived from it.

Regards

On 22/11/2018 07:55, Thomas Peterson wrote:
> In one of my earlier emails I noted that no document that I could find 
> makes reference leap second file, with the exception of Section 4.6 of 
> draft-ietf-ntp-bcp. To focus this discussion away from the question of 
> hosting the data and onto something probably more relevant to this 
> working group mailing list, I would like to propose amending said draft:
>
> Current:
>
>     "The IETF maintains a leap second list [7] for NTP users who are 
> not receiving leap second information through an automatic source."
>
> Proposed:
>
>     "IANA maintains a leap second list [7] for users who are not 
> receiving leap second information through an automatic source."
>
> In addition to the link in [7] being replaced with 
> https://data.iana.org/time-zones/tzdb/leap-seconds.list.
>
>
> Regards
>
>
> On 13/11/2018 12:39, Dieter Sibold wrote:
>> Hello Martin,
>>
>> not speaking as WG chair.
>>
>> I want to support Danny's intention. Albeit I appreciate this 
>> comprehensive discussion it is obvious that the TZDB is of low 
>> relevance for NTP. The discussion about the leap second file is 
>> another story. It is most helpful to disseminate leap seconds in a 
>> predictable and robust way. However usage and interpretation of the 
>> leap second file is not standardized and hence depends on the NTP 
>> implementation considered. Taken that probably most of the current 
>> NTP clients are not based on ntpd anymore, the failure not to specify 
>> how the leap second file is maintained, disseminated, and how it 
>> interacts with the leap second information disseminated by upstream 
>> servers via the NTP leap second bit is a somewhat unsatisfactory 
>> situation.
>>
>> I also want to mention that the leap second file is in my opinion not 
>> a requisite for a fully featured NTP server. You can disseminate a 
>> forthcoming leap second event without a leap second file. RFC 5905 
>> does not mandate a leap second file to achieve this.
>>
>> - Dieter
>>
>>
>>
>> Am 12.11.18, 09:26 schrieb "Martin Burnicki"
>> <martin.burnicki@meinberg.de>:
>>
>>      Danny,
>>           Danny Mayer wrote:
>>      > I have been following this discussion and I'd like to push the 
>> reset
>>      > button. Discussion about the tz database is not just off-topic 
>> but is
>>      > irrelevant to this working group. Many people on this list may be
>>      > interested but there are other forums for that.
>>           The folks in the NTP WG are discussing how NTP is supposed 
>> to work.
>>           The leap second file which is (among other ways) 
>> distributed via TZDB is
>>      an important requisite for a full featured NTP server operation.
>>           Of course there are other platforms to discuss more 
>> details, but you
>>      don't always know who is on which platform.
>>           It's very important that the WG folks at least know that 
>> this stuff and
>>      variants of it exist, so IMO it's perfectly fine to discuss at 
>> least
>>      some basics here.
>>           Martin
>>      --
>>      Martin Burnicki
>>           Senior Software Engineer
>>           MEINBERG Funkuhren GmbH & Co. KG
>>      Email: martin.burnicki@meinberg.de
>>      Phone: +49 5281 9309-414
>>      Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/martinburnicki/
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>> Meinberg,
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