Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun
Martin Thomson <martin.thomson@gmail.com> Wed, 08 May 2013 15:47 UTC
Return-Path: <martin.thomson@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 793A721F8EBD for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 8 May 2013 08:47:40 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -5.124
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.124 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.825, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FhSLcyp8ldVz for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 8 May 2013 08:47:35 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-lb0-f179.google.com (mail-lb0-f179.google.com [209.85.217.179]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 221F421F8ECB for <rtcweb@ietf.org>; Wed, 8 May 2013 08:47:33 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-lb0-f179.google.com with SMTP id d10so2065704lbj.24 for <rtcweb@ietf.org>; Wed, 08 May 2013 08:47:33 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Q88QzYAAq9+6yqRvBYVq7R4pppu/U2z2Fr1UQAshGls=; b=PG11Cc6UdvUrDIZmxgW+3GunJeQ5fXlVxz0N9ZJwsFLjdDQYl93vLBdaO+jCG57QgD vioD8U75A2EbeFv1sCLy7rg9TNAkKc3nYWrLhLUzDYr+TViHjhHzYTTBXBDDGWyBwQzb I6F9Bes3sKFEHF1l1A/HXtlL4NlYeooGD7YCS3x3rFO3THJYFZ0sgNxFdX7PokIJn2d7 KlY9vPKqvD4RmO0bbiWvQa27MPUtDMEoYbGOdwCrHFm3/Cjw9Hyi+EKnVJp79ITVsOG4 zOtqi4rmTtOTIOr5/61or+rXrmoF+0E6S3si/kYi4WgFovLHV1u/EObENJyb3rez2XPn 1f3Q==
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.112.160.1 with SMTP id xg1mr3464108lbb.110.1368028053042; Wed, 08 May 2013 08:47:33 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.112.159.138 with HTTP; Wed, 8 May 2013 08:47:32 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <518A4DE0.2040306@ericsson.com>
References: <51894846.3090102@nostrum.com> <518A474C.5020200@ericsson.com> <518A4DE0.2040306@ericsson.com>
Date: Wed, 08 May 2013 08:47:32 -0700
Message-ID: <CABkgnnVq4UgH+AgA=n6VAuyy5xo1d13ur3Zh5aBn9MzaHpd6RA@mail.gmail.com>
From: Martin Thomson <martin.thomson@gmail.com>
To: Stefan Håkansson LK <stefan.lk.hakansson@ericsson.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Cc: "rtcweb@ietf.org" <rtcweb@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun
X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list <rtcweb.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtcweb>
List-Post: <mailto:rtcweb@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 May 2013 15:47:41 -0000
This is a pretty complicated example, but I agree that it is quite relevant. If the camera that can produce Z is attached (to the RTCPeerConnection), then an offer would include X, Y and Z, but it would probably have to be marked sendonly. Other m-lines could be used to offer to receive X and Y. I don't see this being solved very well by SDP at all. Regardless of the option chosen. On 8 May 2013 06:06, Stefan Håkansson LK <stefan.lk.hakansson@ericsson.com> wrote: > One more question (and I think this one is applicable to Plan B as well). It > has to do with devices with HW encoders. > > If I have a system that supports video encoding and decoding of format X and > Y it is pretty obvious what the offer should look like. > > But if I add a camera that can also encode in format Z, what should the > offer look like? > > The camera would not decode, so for sendrecv m-lines format Z could not be > included in an offer. > > Does this mean that to utilize camera encoders (if the corresponding > decoders are not available in the system), we'd be limited to sendonly > m-lines? > > Stefan > > > > On 2013-05-08 14:38, Stefan Håkansson LK wrote: >> >> A couple of questions (and sorry for the rtcweb/webrtc centric >> perspective) for clarification: >> >> * How would the info about PC-track and PC-stream id's be conveyed (I >> assume the msid draft)? >> >> * What is your thinking regarding mapping between PC-tracks and m-lines? >> For example, if Alice's app initiates a session with two video >> PC-track's flowing to Bob's app, that would presumable create a session >> with two sendonly m-lines. If, at a later stage, Bob's app upgrades the >> session by sending three video PC-tracks to Alice's app. How would the >> Bob -> Alice video PC-tracks be allocated to the existing m-lines >> (becoming sendrecv), and how would pick which one to use a new m-line? >> E.g., would it be random, or should the app decide, and based on what in >> that case? >> >> Stefan >> >> >> >> On 2013-05-07 20:30, Adam Roach wrote: >>> >>> In order to facilitate discussion between the two SDP format >>> alternatives we're considering, I've put together a document that more >>> clearly spells out the Plan A approach as we originally envisioned it. >>> Note that this is a slightly different approach than Cullen outlined in >>> Orlando. I fear the Orlando approach may have suffered from its attempts >>> to incorporate some elements of Plan B in an attempt to appease >>> proponents of that approach; and, in doing so, lost some of its clean >>> architecture. >>> >>> The cleaned up, new-and-improved description of the Plan A approach is >>> available here: >>> >>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-roach-rtcweb-plan-a-00.txt >>> >>> Note that we've omitted discussion of glare reduction from that >>> document, as I believe that mid-session glare can be completely avoided >>> by applications implementing a set of non-normative behaviors. These >>> behaviors are described in the a separate companion document: >>> >>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-roach-rtcweb-glareless-add-00.txt >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> /a >>> _______________________________________________ >>> rtcweb mailing list >>> rtcweb@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> rtcweb mailing list >> rtcweb@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb > > > _______________________________________________ > rtcweb mailing list > rtcweb@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Paul Kyzivat
- [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Adam Roach
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Adam Roach
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Roni Even
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Roni Even
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Adam Roach
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Harald Alvestrand
- [rtcweb] Undeclared SSRCs (Re: Plan A, respun) Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Colin Perkins
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Colin Perkins
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Stefan Håkansson LK
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Stefan Håkansson LK
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Jonathan Lennox
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Stefan Håkansson LK
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Adam Roach
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] Undeclared SSRCs (Re: Plan A, respun) Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] Undeclared SSRCs (Re: Plan A, respun) Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Dale R. Worley
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [rtcweb] Undeclared SSRCs (Re: Plan A, respun) Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Stefan Håkansson LK
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Jonathan Lennox
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Cullen Jennings
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Cullen Jennings
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Cullen Jennings
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Adam Roach
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Cullen Jennings
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Cullen Jennings
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Colin Perkins
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Cullen Jennings
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Colin Perkins
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Emil Ivov
- [rtcweb] MSID fallback for non-MSID case (Re: Pla… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Colin Perkins
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Colin Perkins
- Re: [rtcweb] MSID fallback for non-MSID case (Re:… Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] MSID fallback for non-MSID case (Re:… Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] MSID fallback for non-MSID case (Re:… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] MSID fallback for non-MSID case (Re:… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] MSID fallback for non-MSID case (Re:… Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] MSID fallback for non-MSID case (Re:… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] MSID fallback for non-MSID case (Re:… Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Adam Roach
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Kevin Dempsey
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Adam Roach
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Adam Roach
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Adam Roach
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Colin Perkins
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Colin Perkins
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Adam Roach
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Christer Holmberg
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Roni Even
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Roni Even
- Re: [rtcweb] MSID fallback for non-MSID case (Re:… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] MSID fallback for non-MSID case (Re:… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] Plan A, respun Cullen Jennings (fluffy)