Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Question about SRv6 Insert function)
Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com> Thu, 05 September 2019 01:23 UTC
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To: Ron Bonica <rbonica=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>, Ole Troan <otroan@employees.org>, Fernando Gont <fernando@gont.com.ar>
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From: Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com>
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Subject: Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Question about SRv6 Insert function)
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On 4/9/19 21:27, Ron Bonica wrote: > Ole, > > Yes, a deep breath and some introspection are always a good thing. > > First, I think that we need to make a distinction between the "spirit" and "letter" of the law. Next, we need to make a statement regarding good engineering practice. > > RFC 8200 mandates some things. For example, In an IPv6 header, the source address must precede the destination address. Any attempt to reverse those two would violate the letter of the law. > > By contrast, RFC 8200 strongly suggests other things. For example, transit nodes should not insert or delete extension headers. I don't think it "suggests" this. It clearly forbids it. > In general, these suggestions should be heeded. But exemptions can be granted, on a case-by-case basis, An exception about this would be a major change regarding what IPv6 is and its operation. > For better or worse, RFC 8200 does not use RFC 2119 language. So it is difficult to distinguish between the spirit and letter of the law. I think you can talk about spirit when there's room for interpretation, or the text is not clear. I don't think there's any of that in RFC8200 regarding EH insertion being forbidden. In fact, we added the text we added to make it clear that it was forbidden. > Beyond that, we need to make a statement regarding good engineering practice. I would like to contribute one: if one is to get into publishing specs, new specs should comply with the specs they depend on (i.e. the normative references). That means: 1) Don't violate other specs, or, 2) If you strongly feel like it, you first update the target spec, so that you behave nicely (you eventually comply with it). > If a technology violates the spirit of RFC 8200 once, with good reason, that is fine. I tend to differ here. If a technology is violating an aspect of a spec on which we spend a long time and energy, that's not fine. If we (IETF) do it, that would seem to be an indication of issues in the standardization process -- we publishing specs that not even us comply with doesn't seem to look nice. Doing this kind of major surgery (EH insertion) after elevating IPv6 to "Internet Standard" would bring another set of uncomfortable questions. Thanks, -- Fernando Gont SI6 Networks e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492
- [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Quest… Ron Bonica
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Q… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Q… li zhenqiang
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Q… Ron Bonica
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Q… Ole Troan
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Q… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Q… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Q… Ole Troan
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Q… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Q… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Q… Ole Troan
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Q… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Q… Tim Chown
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Q… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Q… Tom Herbert
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Q… Enno Rey
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law Nick Hilliard
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Q… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Q… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Q… Philip Homburg
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Q… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Q… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Q… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Q… Alexander Vainshtein
- [spring] IPv6 EH-insertion (Re: Spirit and Letter… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Q… Mark Smith
- Re: [spring] IPv6 EH-insertion (Re: Spirit and Le… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Q… Ron Bonica
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Q… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Q… Tom Herbert
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Q… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Q… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Q… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Q… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Q… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Q… Ole Troan
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Q… Andrew Alston
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Q… Andrew Alston
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Q… Tom Herbert
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Q… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Q… Ole Troan
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Q… Ron Bonica
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law - non-t… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law - non-t… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Q… Sander Steffann
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Q… Ole Troan
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Q… Sander Steffann
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Q… Ole Troan
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Q… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Q… Sander Steffann
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Q… Sander Steffann
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Q… Tom Herbert
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law Nick Hilliard
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Q… Sander Steffann
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Q… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Q… Tom Herbert
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Q… Mark Smith
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Q… Ron Bonica
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Q… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Q… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Q… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Q… Sander Steffann
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law - non-t… Zafar Ali (zali)
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law - non-t… Tom Herbert
- Re: [spring] IPv6 EH-insertion (Re: Spirit and Le… Michael Richardson
- Re: [spring] IPv6 EH-insertion (Re: Spirit and Le… Chengli (Cheng Li)
- Re: [spring] IPv6 EH-insertion (Re: Spirit and Le… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] IPv6 EH-insertion (Re: Spirit and Le… Mark Smith
- Re: [spring] Spirit and Letter of the Law (was: Q… li zhenqiang
- Re: [spring] IPv6 EH-insertion (Re: Spirit and Le… Fernando Gont