[TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantum Hybrid ECDHE-MLKEM Key Agreement for TLSv1.3
Kris Kwiatkowski <kris@amongbytes.com> Tue, 14 October 2025 22:30 UTC
Return-Path: <kris@amongbytes.com>
X-Original-To: tls@mail2.ietf.org
Delivered-To: tls@mail2.ietf.org
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF66D739FF49 for <tls@mail2.ietf.org>; Tue, 14 Oct 2025 15:30:13 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ietf.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -0.443
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.443 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DC_PNG_UNO_LARGO=0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_08=1.651, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_SAFE_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: mail2.ietf.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=amongbytes.com
Received: from mail2.ietf.org ([166.84.6.31]) by localhost (mail2.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6m5KwGFJnMXV for <tls@mail2.ietf.org>; Tue, 14 Oct 2025 15:30:12 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from 1.mo580.mail-out.ovh.net (1.mo580.mail-out.ovh.net [178.33.252.199]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BD175739FE66 for <tls@ietf.org>; Tue, 14 Oct 2025 15:30:07 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mxplan8.mail.ovh.net (unknown [10.110.43.248]) by mo580.mail-out.ovh.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4cmTRr53Yyz5vq0 for <tls@ietf.org>; Tue, 14 Oct 2025 22:30:00 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from amongbytes.com (37.59.142.108) by mxplan8.mail.ovh.net (172.16.2.41) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.2507.59; Wed, 15 Oct 2025 00:30:00 +0200
Authentication-Results: garm.ovh; auth=pass (GARM-108S002d7dcffe9-bea8-4514-bb05-ada6705f39d8, E911015E2913ADD4C1C355C48C121C17D940D0A4) smtp.auth=kris@amongbytes.com
X-OVh-ClientIp: 88.97.253.244
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------y0bcc9IK7HTAbGmBNaygqZ2Q"
Message-ID: <5315a0a8-4420-4f99-ba28-ddd79758197c@amongbytes.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2025 23:29:59 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
To: tls@ietf.org
References: <DM5PR18MB232668BC226E074B7F3DDE7BABEBA@DM5PR18MB2326.namprd18.prod.outlook.com> <20251014175645.409307.qmail@cr.yp.to> <aO6utvx6ier77gFP@netmeister.org> <CABcZeBN_zfDzyV7ef5pPEDQYSvQtdfK3cX6kgO+fYspHda3aLg@mail.gmail.com> <aO7ApT-A6_Kr5cCe@netmeister.org>
Content-Language: en-US
From: Kris Kwiatkowski <kris@amongbytes.com>
In-Reply-To: <aO7ApT-A6_Kr5cCe@netmeister.org>
X-Ovh-Tracer-GUID: 486eeb81-49bf-4424-b00c-64ace1b19464
X-Ovh-Tracer-Id: 14909166566810500887
X-VR-SPAMSTATE: OK
X-VR-SPAMSCORE: 0
X-VR-SPAMCAUSE: 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
DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha256; bh=67afaKTgBxUkb/0IF0Ym+XZ/3KudOWsjsHmyAhIzsUk=; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=amongbytes.com; h=From; s=ovhmo2671616-selector1; t=1760481000; v=1; b=lFY8EsfLHDASf4oqe5L59orgZvWRc9ddbE0Zcu9pMpJsvTk2RZjZDWE5jBDlKjrz6MKtrG45 xXIUMPyTSu1CbELqqEyupmxQVnziJ94WdYf3sN29T5EdTC0ipMMXJ14A7PK8wYVZXoKqqfJwy8X eC48vLU+Qav5Cnv/xtBZwU+sBM1ya+fXlXMvkV/h/eGPH0mX1vSH5F2zgjvni+yt5br6dDudERe WRANlg1lfxhEIHsI3CmQDL0BJ3vvwanlTG25VH6GVtltF2vYvXk8ZTkYiqvaBMpIv2tGYUNyRgn SIHnFf2ZDmV3xNa065k7KrzJ5t+QEvm/DJmhW+/Q/i4qw==
Message-ID-Hash: UWYAAE2QN34DPF77CZJH46X7PSFYJOIO
X-Message-ID-Hash: UWYAAE2QN34DPF77CZJH46X7PSFYJOIO
X-MailFrom: kris@amongbytes.com
X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tls.ietf.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header
X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc6
Precedence: list
Subject: [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantum Hybrid ECDHE-MLKEM Key Agreement for TLSv1.3
List-Id: "This is the mailing list for the Transport Layer Security working group of the IETF." <tls.ietf.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/Lf8CFSn00VpyAMPe0rxDoObE37A>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tls>
List-Help: <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Owner: <mailto:tls-owner@ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:tls@ietf.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:tls-join@ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:tls-leave@ietf.org>
> fact that none of the major browsers According to Cloudflare radar, at least half of the requests come from Chrome. While Cloudflare’s and Google’s deployments are clearly significant, this statistic does appear to be somewhat biased.
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Paul Wouters
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Watson Ladd
- [TLS] Working Group Last Call for Post-quantum Hy… Joseph Salowey
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… David Adrian
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Loganaden Velvindron
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Deirdre Connolly
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Kampanakis, Panos
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Viktor Dukhovni
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Simon Josefsson
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Simon Josefsson
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Kampanakis, Panos
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Watson Ladd
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Kris Kwiatkowski
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Viktor Dukhovni
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Kris Kwiatkowski
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Loganaden Velvindron
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… tirumal reddy
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Andrei Popov
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Yaroslav Rosomakho
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Jan Schaumann
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Watson Ladd
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Working Group Last Call … Andrei Popov
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Working Group Last Call … D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Thom Wiggers
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Working Group Last Call … Rob Sayre
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Working Group Last Call … Deirdre Connolly
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Working Group … Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… David Benjamin
- [TLS] Re: [External⚠️] Re: Working Group Last Cal… Yaroslav Rosomakho
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Working Group Last Call … Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Working Group Last Call … Andrei Popov
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Martin Thomson
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Working Group Last Call … Andrei Popov
- [TLS] Re: [External] Re: Working Group Last Call … D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Viktor Dukhovni
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Yaroslav Rosomakho
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Filippo Valsorda
- [TLS] Re: [External] Re: Working Group Last Call … Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Simon Josefsson
- [TLS] Re: [External] Re: Working Group Last Call … John Mattsson
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Watson Ladd
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Working Group Last Call … Deirdre Connolly
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Working Group … Bellebaum, Thomas
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… John Mattsson
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Bellebaum, Thomas
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Working Group Last Call … Deirdre Connolly
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Working Group Last Call … Rob Sayre
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Working Group Last Call … Rob Sayre
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Yaroslav Rosomakho
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Working Group … Bellebaum, Thomas
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Working Group … Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Dennis Jackson
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Jan Schaumann
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Stephen Farrell
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Joseph Birr-Pixton
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Robert Relyea
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Working Group … Bellebaum, Thomas
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Kris Kwiatkowski
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Alicja Kario
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Kampanakis, Panos
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Bellebaum, Thomas
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Bellebaum, Thomas
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Simon Josefsson
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Working Group Last Call … Deirdre Connolly
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Jan Schaumann
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Sophie Schmieg
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Christopher Patton
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Rob Sayre
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Kris Kwiatkowski
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Viktor Dukhovni
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Jan Schaumann
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Kampanakis, Panos
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Alicja Kario
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… John Mattsson
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Alicja Kario
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Working Group Last Call … Deirdre Connolly
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Working Group Last Call … Rob Sayre
- [TLS] Appeal Response to Rob Sayre - was Re: Re: … Paul Wouters
- [TLS] Re: Appeal Response to Rob Sayre - was Re: … Rob Sayre
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Jan Schaumann
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… John Mattsson
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… John Mattsson
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… John Mattsson
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… John Mattsson
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Alicja Kario
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Simon Josefsson
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Simon Josefsson
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Alicja Kario
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… John Mattsson
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… John Mattsson
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Peter Gutmann
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Yaakov Stein
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Kampanakis, Panos
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Bellebaum, Thomas
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Bellebaum, Thomas
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Robert Relyea
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Kris Kwiatkowski
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Simon Josefsson
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Sophie Schmieg
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Alicja Kario
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Joseph Salowey