Re: [Tools-discuss] [rfc-i] Proposed survey on I-D authoring tools

Ronald Tse <tse@ribose.com> Sat, 03 October 2020 03:22 UTC

Return-Path: <tse@ribose.com>
X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 816D43A17D6; Fri, 2 Oct 2020 20:22:59 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.1
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ribose.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GloDF4ywLU_P; Fri, 2 Oct 2020 20:22:57 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from APC01-SG2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr1310043.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.131.43]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 495F13A17A6; Fri, 2 Oct 2020 20:22:56 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=XQIjgzVrjkEYztASal8JmQ6bykaCuKLwFHiu/EepBmRswUCQLcy2ZwIWyrY8UkDTkqXrTM4eUr2jiPhegml9QboHgaod8YBQyOxg/xy6Hxo14VTbDP9eoDG0GHvrpY6IL1a4EOBG021JDI36fTtP+bCGqQxy18VW1dLruKMq0Iy/MkOhyC5Rjji/Qf3d7yMkzY9OoMV+2E83QCw+jiZltdh3LadP6yhO/+JY4l/q3xyWAJ+nERLJNkzILHlyBzF+pqlg9bPrHXxQJjiUZ8cKONej6XBt+LMWXDYhufuGAS2xxTIqSMF/JYyV47r/c4xSvGjvbdo1HHeaHSVV94+r3w==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=yn/c6jHNcgQ0EKzZRL7z233CcMGWS5/Vj4RMiUqUdoc=; b=USA7yh7B7HPAlvsqyLaf/kmYvx8SPuCYqt+Hd2dnUUKMjYrfSwS+tzK634EJfxqL2EQGPc1JBjuGsbO9RwPemyQLPTxzvxsBzuddPgAK4laNV4QOLPr7YDTPWG1zgvcGToWdENJneGMMem3hCaD3kfJ6m4V3dGaK3swV8Ev0oZWsFAHnAviyxim3+00lbQ1h0x7gqxxkfK66ETBG/nBGPR8mK2/l231dMP1ih9Mc2LngJa459NHKDXSqtW9D7FjHofVdw8EYk3lyGIdPDw8ANXtcaV0z12x/t5CIhHe3CVGMAPXQTnAF9dkjftz4pkUIxMvb12ON5p0n8XR19uC+WA==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=ribose.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=ribose.com; dkim=pass header.d=ribose.com; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ribose.com; s=selector2; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=yn/c6jHNcgQ0EKzZRL7z233CcMGWS5/Vj4RMiUqUdoc=; b=VI8iJmdksoHLykdzC6zCJFuL6TaDt+fr/bsXu6x+eIP8wCT4JibPbyUv0kyNJ9bvPAmK3RYilRsaLp8IEwr3d/JVEGwc3ImHkDgV/tppP7/IvnZqCb/nR41uXOw5UkhKQzdjYWhu0wPaSBqTAMArhrShNeNrKNliwnXnYv7NalY=
Received: from HK0PR01MB2900.apcprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com (2603:1096:203:98::14) by HKAPR01MB3682.apcprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com (2603:1096:203:c5::16) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3433.39; Sat, 3 Oct 2020 03:22:52 +0000
Received: from HK0PR01MB2900.apcprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com ([fe80::950d:3e33:78e0:8c4c]) by HK0PR01MB2900.apcprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com ([fe80::950d:3e33:78e0:8c4c%4]) with mapi id 15.20.3433.039; Sat, 3 Oct 2020 03:22:52 +0000
From: Ronald Tse <tse@ribose.com>
To: Jay Daley <jay@ietf.org>
CC: RFC Interest <rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org>, Tools Discussion <tools-discuss@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [rfc-i] [Tools-discuss] Proposed survey on I-D authoring tools
Thread-Index: AQHWl/uqN1J/NExTA0SCI57toMvfCKmC5cIAgAAFvQCAABT4gIAAYVkAgAAAb4CAAHiFgIAAJM+AgAE5aIA=
Date: Sat, 03 Oct 2020 03:22:52 +0000
Message-ID: <B0B9E99F-4D93-4F50-90B9-26DA5A552924@ribose.com>
References: <71CCD4C4-2CBA-4AD3-A254-2F19B261D882@ietf.org> <m2lfgqq2ww.wl-randy@psg.com> <1071F4D3-3F36-4012-9CBB-19DDDE6D0564@ietf.org> <m2h7req25a.wl-randy@psg.com> <9F1ABBE7-DC90-4C3C-8493-E89243C73C4C@ietf.org> <m24knepwg4.wl-randy@psg.com> <A62BA403-01EC-4142-A91C-6E675C1E1942@ietf.org> <19017.1601561002@localhost> <m2h7rendtv.wl-randy@psg.com> <DBCBE873-ACFA-423D-8ABF-9D4DEBF1AFAB@ietf.org> <m27ds9onz0.wl-randy@psg.com> <CAF4+nEEC31Cj20vCYsXA-xfmVVTHPf6BHjNYvMnsHcocao3YYQ@mail.gmail.com> <m25z7tmt7a.wl-randy@psg.com> <3B086B7A-7DC7-424A-8267-5972904C561B@ribose.com> <0CBB8BB9-D251-4841-8D1B-B2C29A28AD2D@ietf.org>
In-Reply-To: <0CBB8BB9-D251-4841-8D1B-B2C29A28AD2D@ietf.org>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.1)
authentication-results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=ribose.com;
x-originating-ip: [58.153.245.161]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: d16ba22d-5976-4ffe-5b7e-08d8674b9ce6
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: HKAPR01MB3682:
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <HKAPR01MB3682143EDEE370478D23691AD70E0@HKAPR01MB3682.apcprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com>
x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000;
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: +RYbb+2km3nFS1oXCJLSQqxbFoTY34ixf+v5R7TBeDSufrtfH+lXYox5PuSqwhqW4xDdBqmA1n56uow75k0tqj5gUggCxEFlzeNJkLnyYPLEOeYebpV6ztpvlGNCGlYMzewhP7qICBnROTF5e7fXTQe9KBthc7Nd1tt2olH2MFqoUn3lMYr1P2Q1wbSkbYx9e7JryjQg4S6l8h98ZKyU/yZwDkooFXXnU+hPyixFjFmOzyXMbud1Bnk9S3HieFdf/5S4pyPpzGrI4yZ8bfD5dhTc2azwzkC/sHQtaYWnYXNLMfaXOx2xU/+OIDHwZ7Isvp+ry36NOMJAVP7+qLEl7A==
x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:HK0PR01MB2900.apcprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(396003)(346002)(39830400003)(366004)(376002)(136003)(66556008)(8936002)(64756008)(66446008)(66476007)(6916009)(478600001)(6512007)(5660300002)(8676002)(2906002)(33656002)(6486002)(2616005)(36756003)(71200400001)(76116006)(86362001)(91956017)(66946007)(26005)(83380400001)(6506007)(316002)(4326008)(186003)(54906003); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101;
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: gdWRxk/jQydYa8b5r8ibSy5psnZzTxeafUfFEcKvMETPWX5biOHlO6MOioDeAFwdTjdPWhW/VBclTWlx+t8dnyubppNfDbNGKOlrWAeCLk/DWl6X7iGxXTSy6ssGltARpSubWEO9Ymv8lSQ54SCnce6fD2YTbdHk2eZWUJQTUlHecDD8KDcdgB9ag4XzOxUEifYGQgzj+fUGAwD+2gJtA/y1lIqsyRnYlitArUBcnx2YtJFOUTYXl48HZS/Xqf2JD/s1lO63qN9ZWBPDOl7OD3ffhE+0nCzafki7g4r50kl0lSEDO8WKqKGfOXsCRosY8zWv5/GZrzWWOlm1/5wpC3FNYZMcDc1fCk7deGM61Lb4n4rzKVFAbxuf63tDxmnISjnnG7TzJb97t6e7vAmSCKd5EcH6qi5ETKVeTBmGFeVUg0n8b95BPX2c2mcNFoipDP2HdW4CeI7R9P2Esk9H6Pj7Yb85OKvbGMLfoKabD1mKihSzpaKKGCBqZdjE9H39fszylx8A35O0e6bGljIN6G0NPwX//5dnxaDRXcWk7YDUB4JWq3pRaAwTxyJ+sh/GNkX0ZXKaeIy3ehzDfHQEcGET5McIiE18gaiV23u4V47DcFhhV0y9wzdHMaIK8ynoD+eghD9JIpqhhzhbhIvzdA==
x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_B0B9E99F4D934F5090B926DA5A552924ribosecom_"
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: ribose.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: HK0PR01MB2900.apcprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: d16ba22d-5976-4ffe-5b7e-08d8674b9ce6
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 03 Oct 2020 03:22:52.3027 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: d98a04ff-ef98-489b-b33c-13c23a2e091a
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: gzS38QIsBvfmysnkOw3qPYqP33Bw3UkyGc036HyMxjYvpblsb6dduzFe+Q3vhKe0
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HKAPR01MB3682
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/R_igwxw2XADqpPLP4mN_1rHMUJQ>
Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [rfc-i] Proposed survey on I-D authoring tools
X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion <tools-discuss.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tools-discuss>, <mailto:tools-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tools-discuss/>
List-Post: <mailto:tools-discuss@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tools-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss>, <mailto:tools-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Oct 2020 03:23:00 -0000

Hi Jay,

Please find my replies inline. Thanks!

"AsciiDoc using Metanorma / AsciiRFC”

I’m happy to add the 'AsciiRFC' part but is there a reason you want the ' (formerly known as asciidoctor-rfc) ' removed?

Our original 'asciidoctor-rfc’ only generates XML RFC v2 (and the pre-release version of v3), and has been superseded by Metanorma for nearly 2 years.

Can we add an option like:

“I don’t know; my authoring tool seems to do that for me"

Unfortunately this doesn’t really make sense as an additional option for that question.  It’s a matrix question where people answer each of the options with one of

  • Always
    • Very often
    • Sometimes
    • Rarely
    • Never [Ensure this is scored as 0]

Also, I don’t understand how this benefits us as the respondents may or may not have a built-in checker they don’t know about - can you explain the thinking behind it?

I took the intent of this question as to gauge whether XML RFCs submitted were valid upon submission. If most submissions were not validated prior (e.g. authors like using the submission process for validation), then the RPC presumably needs more resourcing to reject invalid ones. On the other hand, if most submissions were already valid, resourcing is less of a concern.

For example, a typical Metanorma user may not be aware of the exact validation tools used mentioned in this question. One may put “Never” as they might not have ever heard of these validation tools. However, they do know that Metanorma helps them validate the file (by the output and warnings), but not sure what exactly that process entails.

Therefore the option of “I don’t know, my authoring tool seems to do that for me” rescues them from the “Never” bucket — otherwise the answers may be skewed.

Kind regards,
Ron