Re: [Tools-discuss] [Manycouches] Proposal to discontinue live mp3 audio streams at IETF meetings

Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> Tue, 06 October 2020 11:21 UTC

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To: "Maisonneuve, Julien (Nokia - FR/Paris-Saclay)" <julien.maisonneuve@nokia.com>, Tom Pusateri <pusateri=40bangj.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
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From: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [Manycouches] Proposal to discontinue live mp3 audio streams at IETF meetings
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Julien,
Thanks for the info!
I did not know that MP3 patents expired.  It's been so many years indeed.

Now I saw that lame mp3 is part of Audacity, while earlier one had to 
install it separately, almost crossing a red light.  I dont know whether 
lame mp3 is part of audacity because patents expired or because audacity 
takes more responsibility on their shoulders.

Now I notice some explanations at Fraunhofer saying that "mp3 can be 
made available as an optional part of the xHE-AAC software package." or 
that "However, the end of the mp3 licensing program does not 
automatically mean that all mp3 technology is available license-free 
now. Apart from the core mp3 patents included in the licensing program, 
there might still be some implementation–specific patents (or patents 
for other functional enhancements) that have not expired. Thus, 
manufacturers will have to check the situation regarding their intended 
products first before including mp3."

My intuition ("le pif" :-), as opposed to documented rational 
understanding, tells me that the same kind licensing of mp3 would 
continue.  They cant change the smell of it after so many years simply 
with some expiration.  Mp3 smells it.  There would be a need of a new 
concept with a new name like 'free-mp3'.

On another hand, an IETF technology is likely to benefit from a RAND 
licensing scheme, which is more advantageous.

Alex

Le 06/10/2020 à 12:21, Maisonneuve, Julien (Nokia - FR/Paris-Saclay) a 
écrit :
> Alex,
> MP3 patents have not been an issue for a while : https://www.theregister.com/2017/05/16/mp3_dies_nobody_noticed/
> Julien.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2020 12:06 PM
> To: Maisonneuve, Julien (Nokia - FR/Paris-Saclay) <julien.maisonneuve@nokia.com>om>; Tom Pusateri <pusateri=40bangj.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
> Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org; manycouches@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Manycouches] [Tools-discuss] Proposal to discontinue live mp3 audio streams at IETF meetings
> 
> 
> 
> Le 05/10/2020 à 18:19, Maisonneuve, Julien (Nokia - FR/Paris-Saclay) a écrit :
>> We shouldn't focus too hard on the implementation of the audio feeds, it's a technical problem that can be solved.
>> The hard part is how this is exposed to users, and what tools are available along with the necessary configuration (hopefully small or nonexistent).
>> Ideally clicking on a link in the meeting webpages should enable listening to the audio feed with no prerequisite at all, regardless of your device's platform. If this is not possible there should be an easy walkthrough of what needs to be done depending on the platform.
>> Adding Opus to the conversation could be nice, but may contradict the "ideal" scenario above (e.g. do ALL browsers support Opus ?).
> 
> The question of browser support, and its details, is relevant.  For example, meetecho is best supported by Chrome and less by Firefox (lacks device switching).  That might prevent some people from using meetecho instead of installing Chrome.  Which translates directly into preventing them from participating to IETF.
> 
> For opus - firefox does support opus, it seems.
> 
> Mp3 might be a format that, despite its longevity, might not be supported by some browsers because of the licensing scheme.
> 
> Other than browsers, there also the players: there are many players of live streams out there, which are not web browsers.  Many of these players dont support mp3.
> 
> Alex
> 
>> Best regards,
>> Julien.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Manycouches <manycouches-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Tom
>> Pusateri
>> Sent: Monday, October 5, 2020 5:57 PM
>> To: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>
>> Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org; manycouches@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [Manycouches] [Tools-discuss] Proposal to discontinue
>> live mp3 audio streams at IETF meetings
>>
>>
>>> On Oct 5, 2020, at 2:35 AM, Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> It would be advantageous to continue the streaming of audio, for a
>>> registration-less observer read-only kind of participation.
>>>
>>> Maybe a thing to improve is the format of the data.  A better
>>> performing format than mp3, why not an IETF recent technology (ogg?),
>>> with a better support from free software tools that are widely available, could be good.
>>>
>>> Alex
>>
>> Do you maybe mean Opus (RFC 6716)?
>>
>> I like it when the IETF uses open technologies like this and it seems most operating systems support it now.
>>
>> Opus also supports multi-channel audio which would be great for multiple microphones.
>>
>> I would support using Opus over MP3 but that is not the main obstacle. We need a way to map live streams to sessions in the API to restore widespread access to the streams.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Tom
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Manycouches mailing list
>> Manycouches@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manycouches
>>