Re: [v6ops] draft-palet-v6ops-transition-ipv4aas discussion

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <[e-mail]>]

Agree, it makes sense.

I don't know if other operators are using also the same approach when using NAT64. May be nobody considered, but I think it will make sense to have the same text as well?

Regards,
Jordi
 
 
-----Mensaje original-----
De: <[e-mail]>
Fecha: viernes, 27 de abril de 2018, 11:21
Para: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <[e-mail]>, V6 Ops List <[e-mail]>
Asunto: RE: [v6ops] draft-palet-v6ops-transition-ipv4aas discussion

    Re-,
    
    Thank you. 
    
    For DS-Lite, you may mention the following :
    - when no PCP server is configured, the CPE assumes by default that the AFTR is the PCP server. 
    - a plain IPv6 mode is used to send PCP requests to the server.
    
    This is how PCP is deployed today for DS-lite. It is worth to have it documented. 
    
    Cheers,
    Med
    
    > -----Message d'origine-----
    > De : v6ops [mailto:[e-mail]] De la part de JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
    > Envoyé : vendredi 27 avril 2018 11:04
    > À : V6 Ops List
    > Objet : Re: [v6ops] draft-palet-v6ops-transition-ipv4aas discussion
    > 
    > Done, thanks!
    > 
    > So, I removed the SHOULD for PCP, as it is already in RFC7084, but added (DS-
    > LITE and 464XLAT):
    > 
    > 	The CE Router SHOULD support IGD-PCP IWF [RFC6970] (UPnP
    >                Internet Gateway Device - Port Control Protocol
    >                Interworking Function).
    > 
    > Regards,
    > Jordi
    > 
    > 
    > -----Mensaje original-----
    > De: <[e-mail]>
    > Fecha: viernes, 27 de abril de 2018, 10:37
    > Para: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <[e-mail]>, V6 Ops List
    > <[e-mail]>
    > Asunto: RE: [v6ops] draft-palet-v6ops-transition-ipv4aas discussion
    > 
    >     Jordi,
    > 
    >     That is what I was suggesting.
    > 
    >     Cheers,
    >     Med
    > 
    >     > -----Message d'origine-----
    >     > De : v6ops [mailto:[e-mail]] De la part de JORDI PALET
    > MARTINEZ
    >     > Envoyé : vendredi 27 avril 2018 10:32
    >     > À : V6 Ops List
    >     > Objet : Re: [v6ops] draft-palet-v6ops-transition-ipv4aas discussion
    >     >
    >     > Responding to myself ... The alternative maybe to not say anything
    > about
    >     > RFC6887, so the SHOULD in RFC7084 is in effect and add a SHOULD for
    > RFC6970.
    >     >
    >     > Regards,
    >     > Jordi
    >     >
    >     >
    >     > -----Mensaje original-----
    >     > De: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <[e-mail]>
    >     > Fecha: viernes, 27 de abril de 2018, 10:27
    >     > Para: V6 Ops List <[e-mail]>
    >     > Asunto: Re: [v6ops] draft-palet-v6ops-transition-ipv4aas discussion
    >     >
    >     >     The difference is in RFC7084 is a SHOULD for RFC6887, while here
    > I'm
    >     > suggesting a MUST when DS-LITE or 464XLAT are implemented.
    >     >
    >     >     Asking a MUST for RFC6970, and not having a MUST in RFC6887 seems
    > weird
    >     > ...
    >     >
    >     >     Regards,
    >     >     Jordi
    >     >
    >     >
    >     >     -----Mensaje original-----
    >     >     De: <[e-mail]>
    >     >     Fecha: viernes, 27 de abril de 2018, 9:45
    >     >     Para: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <[e-mail]>, V6 Ops
    > List
    >     > <[e-mail]>
    >     >     Asunto: RE: [v6ops] draft-palet-v6ops-transition-ipv4aas discussion
    >     >
    >     >         Re-,
    >     >
    >     >         Please see inline.
    >     >
    >     >         Cheers,
    >     >         Med
    >     >
    >     >         > -----Message d'origine-----
    >     >         > De : v6ops [mailto:[e-mail]] De la part de
    > JORDI
    >     > PALET MARTINEZ
    >     >         > Envoyé : vendredi 27 avril 2018 08:27
    >     >         > À : V6 Ops List
    >     >         > Objet : Re: [v6ops] draft-palet-v6ops-transition-ipv4aas
    > discussion
    >     >         >
    >     >         > Hi Med,
    >     >         >
    >     >         > In the document I'm editing right now, I've it already
    > support for
    >     > RFC6887
    >     >         > (464XLAT-2):
    >     >
    >     >         [Med] You don't need to add an item for 6887 since this is
    > already
    >     > covered in 7084:
    >     >
    >     >            W-6:  The WAN interface of the CE router SHOULD support a
    > Port
    >     >                  Control Protocol (PCP) client as specified in
    > [RFC6887] for
    >     > use
    >     >                  by applications on the CE router.  The PCP client
    > SHOULD
    >     > follow
    >     >                  the procedure specified in Section 8.1 of [RFC6887] to
    >     > discover
    >     >                  its PCP server.  This document takes no position on
    > whether
    >     >                  such functionality is enabled by default or mechanisms
    > by
    >     > which
    >     >                  users would configure the functionality.  Handling PCP
    >     > requests
    >     >                  from PCP clients in the LAN side of the CE router is
    > out of
    >     >                  scope.
    >     >
    >     >         My comment is about the IWF which is needed to allow an UPnP
    > Control
    >     > Point to interact with a PCP server.
    >     >
    >     >         >
    >     >         >    464XLAT requirements:
    >     >         >
    >     >         >    464XLAT-1:  The CE Router MUST perform IPv4 Network
    > Address
    >     >         >                Translation (NAT) on IPv4 traffic translated
    > using
    >     > the
    >     >         >                CLAT, unless a dedicated /64 prefix has been
    >     > acquired
    >     >         >                using DHCPv6-PD [RFC3633] (IPv6 Prefix Options
    > for
    >     >         >                DHCPv6).
    >     >         >
    >     >         >    464XLAT-2:  The CE Router MUST support PCP [RFC6887] (Port
    >     > Control
    >     >         >                Protocol), for explicit control over NAT64
    > mappings.
    >     >
    >     >         [Med] This one should be removed since it overlaps with W-6 in
    > 7084.
    >     >
    >     >         >
    >     >         >    464XLAT-3:  The CE Router MUST implement [RFC7050]
    > (Discovery of
    >     > the
    >     >         >                IPv6 Prefix Used for IPv6 Address Synthesis)
    > in
    >     > order to
    >     >         >                discover the PLAT-side translation IPv4 and
    > IPv6
    >     >         >                prefix(es)/suffix(es).  The CE Router MUST
    > follow
    >     >         >                [RFC7225] (Discovering NAT64 IPv6 Prefixes
    > Using the
    >     >         >                PCP), in order to learn the PLAT-side
    > translation
    >     > IPv4
    >     >         >                and IPv6 prefix(es)/suffix(es) used by an
    > upstream
    >     > PCP-
    >     >         >                controlled NAT64 device.
    >     >         >
    >     >         >
    >     >         > But I now realice that it should be added as well to the DS-
    > Lite
    >     > section, as
    >     >         > it was not present in RFC7084. This is what I've right now:
    >     >         >
    >     >         >   DS-Lite requirements:
    >     >         >
    >     >         >    DSLITE-1:  The IPv6 CE router MUST support configuration
    > of DS-
    >     > Lite
    >     >         >               via the DS-Lite DHCPv6 option [RFC6334] (DHCPv6
    >     > Option for
    >     >         >               Dual-Stack Lite).  The IPv6 CE router MAY use
    > other
    >     >         >               mechanisms to configure DS-Lite parameters.
    > Such
    >     >         >               mechanisms are outside the scope of this
    > document.
    >     >         >
    >     >         >    DSLITE-2:  The IPv6 CE router MUST NOT perform IPv4
    > Network
    >     > Address
    >     >         >               Translation (NAT) on IPv4 traffic encapsulated
    > using
    >     > DS-
    >     >         >               Lite.
    >     >         >
    >     >         >
    >     >         > So just to make sure, you mean to add also to both, 464LAT
    > and DS-
    >     > LITE also a
    >     >         > MUST for RFC6970 ?
    >     >
    >     >         [Med] Yes, I'd like to add an item for the IWF, not the PCP
    > Client
    >     > functionality.
    >     >
    >     >         >
    >     >         > We have a new section with this text suggested by Richard:
    >     >         >
    >     >         > 5.  UPnP IGD-PCP IWF Support
    >     >         >
    >     >         >    UPnP MAY be enabled on the CE Router for stateless
    > mechanisms
    >     > that
    >     >         >    forward unsolicited inbound packets through to the CE.  If
    > UPnP
    >     > is
    >     >         >    enabled, the agent MUST reject any port mapping requests
    > for
    >     > ports
    >     >         >    outside of the range(s) allocated to the CE Router.
    >     >         >
    >     >         >    UPnP SHOULD be disabled for stateful mechanisms that do
    > not
    >     > forward
    >     >         >    unsolicited inbound packets to the CE Router, unless
    > implemented
    >     > in
    >     >         >    conjunction with a method to control the external port
    > mapping,
    >     > such
    >     >         >    as IGD-PCP IWF [RFC6970] (UPnP Internet Gateway Device -
    > Port
    >     > Control
    >     >         >    Protocol Interworking Function).
    >     >         >
    >     >
    >     >         [Med] this text does not recommend implementing the IWF.
    >     >
    >     >         >
    >     >         > Regards,
    >     >         > Jordi
    >     >         >
    >     >         >
    >     >         > -----Mensaje original-----
    >     >         > De: <[e-mail]>
    >     >         > Fecha: viernes, 27 de abril de 2018, 7:26
    >     >         > Para: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <[e-mail]>, V6
    > Ops
    >     > List
    >     >         > <[e-mail]>
    >     >         > Asunto: RE: [v6ops] draft-palet-v6ops-transition-ipv4aas
    > discussion
    >     >         >
    >     >         >     Hi Jordi,
    >     >         >
    >     >         >     As you are on it, and given the IETF recommendation in
    > RFC6888:
    >     >         >
    >     >         >        REQ-9:  A CGN MUST implement a protocol giving
    > subscribers
    >     > explicit
    >     >         >           control over NAT mappings.  That protocol SHOULD be
    > the
    >     > Port
    >     >         >           Control Protocol [RFC6887].
    >     >         >
    >     >         >     which would apply also to the PLAT, I suggest you add an
    > item
    >     > in the
    >     >         > 464lat section to support RFC6970.
    >     >         >
    >     >         >     Cheers,
    >     >         >     Med
    >     >         >
    >     >         >     > -----Message d'origine-----
    >     >         >     > De : v6ops [mailto:[e-mail]] De la part
    > de
    >     > JORDI PALET
    >     >         > MARTINEZ
    >     >         >     > Envoyé : jeudi 26 avril 2018 21:41
    >     >         >     > À : V6 Ops List
    >     >         >     > Objet : Re: [v6ops] draft-palet-v6ops-transition-
    > ipv4aas
    >     > discussion
    >     >         >     >
    >     >         >     > Hi Richard,
    >     >         >     >
    >     >         >     > As I've moved sections 3 & 4 to the end of the document
    > as
    >     > annexes,
    >     >         > I've
    >     >         >     > added a new small section for UPnP with your text. I
    > think
    >     > this also
    >     >         > helps to
    >     >         >     > clarify one of the issues raised by Lee.
    >     >         >     >
    >     >         >     > I'm working on all this changes with my co-authors, and
    > if we
    >     > are good
    >     >         > with
    >     >         >     > them, we probably will submit the new version in a
    > couple of
    >     > days or
    >     >         > so.
    >     >         >     >
    >     >         >     > Thanks!
    >     >         >     >
    >     >         >     > Regards,
    >     >         >     > Jordi
    >     >         >     >
    >     >         >     >
    >     >         >     > -----Mensaje original-----
    >     >         >     > De: v6ops <[e-mail]> en nombre de Richard
    >     > Patterson
    >     >         >     > <[e-mail]>
    >     >         >     > Fecha: miércoles, 25 de abril de 2018, 11:16
    >     >         >     > Para: V6 Ops List <[e-mail]>
    >     >         >     > Asunto: Re: [v6ops] draft-palet-v6ops-transition-
    > ipv4aas
    >     > discussion
    >     >         >     >
    >     >         >     >     Section 4 only briefly touches on UPnP, I'd like to
    >     > propose that we
    >     >         >     >     make a recommendation around its behaviour if it is
    >     > enabled.
    >     >         >     >
    >     >         >     >     UPnP MAY be enabled on the IPv6 transition CE, for
    >     > stateless
    >     >         >     >     mechanisms that forward unsolicited inbound packets
    >     > through to the
    >     >         > CE.
    >     >         >     >     If UPnP is enabled, the agent MUST reject any port
    >     > mapping requests
    >     >         >     >     for ports outside of the range(s) allocated to the
    > IPv6
    >     > transition
    >     >         > CE.
    >     >         >     >
    >     >         >     >     UPnP SHOULD be disabled for stateful mechanisms
    > that do
    >     > not forward
    >     >         >     >     unsolicited inbound packets to the CE, unless
    > implemented
    >     > in
    >     >         >     >     conjunction with a method to control the external
    > port
    >     > mapping,
    >     >         > such
    >     >         >     >     as IGD-PCP IWF [RFC6970].
    >     >         >     >
    >     >         >     >     -Richard
    >     >         >     >
    >     >         >     >
    >     >         >     >     On 25 April 2018 at 01:38, Fred Baker
    >     > <[e-mail]>
    >     >         > wrote:
    >     >         >     >     >
    >     >         >     >     >
    >     >         >     >     >> On Apr 24, 2018, at 12:13 PM, STARK, BARBARA H
    >     > <[e-mail]>
    >     >         > wrote:
    >     >         >     >     >>
    >     >         >     >     >> But that doesn't mean I believe the draft has
    > exactly
    >     > the right
    >     >         > set of
    >     >         >     > features included. My understanding of "adoption" is
    > that it
    >     > is still
    >     >         >     > possible post-adoption to discuss whether specific
    > features /
    >     >         > requirements do
    >     >         >     > or don't belong. If the precise set of features and
    >     > requirements must
    >     >         > be
    >     >         >     > agreed upon prior to adoption, then I would not be in
    > support
    >     > of
    >     >         > adoption.
    >     >         >     > Hopefully we aren't setting the bar that high?
    >     >         >     >     >
    >     >         >     >     > I understand "adoption as a working group draft"
    > to
    >     > mean that the
    >     >         >     > working group has agreed to work on the draft. There
    > are some
    >     > working
    >     >         > groups
    >     >         >     > that seem to confuse "adoption as a work group draft"
    > with
    >     > "agreement
    >     >         > to send
    >     >         >     > it to the IESG"; I don't, but expect conversation in
    > between
    >     > those two
    >     >         >     > events.
    >     >         >     >     >
    >     >         >     >     > That said, I'd like to believe that the draft is
    > pretty
    >     > close,
    >     >         > and that
    >     >         >     > changes that need to be made to it will have text
    > offered by
    >     > the people
    >     >         > that
    >     >         >     > want them. So - keep your cards and letters coming...
    >     >         >     >     >
    >     >         >     >     > _______________________________________________
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