Re: [72attendees] Dietary restrictions

[Henning Schulzrinne <[e-mail]>]

There are some simple "best practices" that some venues have already  
done and that could be "standardized", such as always providing fruit  
(and yoghurt) at breaks and making sure that non-obvious food items  
(such as at the Sunday reception) are labeled. My personal allergy is  
peanuts, where labeling goes a long way.

In Dublin, many restaurants seem to manage this reasonably well. (I  
think the Hilton chain seems to do this as a matter of corporate  
practice for buffets.) The restaurant I visited last night had menu  
labels of N (for "contains nuts") and C ("suitable for celiac") and V  
("vegetarian").

The Google cafeteria seems to have a whole set of symbols that work in  
a mass-feeding environment.

I'm probably a bit naive on this, but simply providing the hosting  
hotel with appropriate hints could go a long way.

In some cities, there are now meal/food ordering services, such as  
FreshDirect in NYC. In other cities, some grocery stores deliver food  
for a reasonable charge. In NYC, you can probably have any kind of  
restaurant food delivered. A bit of exploration by a few volunteers,  
including working with the hotel on drop-off arrangements, can make  
things easier for everyone.

Henning


On Jul 31, 2008, at 8:41 AM, Soininen Jonne (NSN FI/Espoo) wrote:

> Hi everybody,
>
> I have some experience with allergies having being allergic for all  
> my life,
> them getting worse in the last 8-9 years, noticing in the last 10-15  
> years
> how things that didn't use to be in some food, now is there, and  
> having an
> allergic child. However, unlike Mary, I know absolutely nothing about
> nutrition.
>
> However, what I have noticed (after living in different countries)  
> that all
> countries handle different food restrictions very differently. For  
> instance
> Finland, the general knowledge of allergies is relatively high due the
> amount of allergies we have. However, the knowledge of religious food
> restrictions is very low. Countries that have relatively few  
> allergies (and
> still relatively homogenous religious population) have absolutely no
> knowledge what so ever on any restrictions. My Italian father-in-law  
> doesn't
> believe that allergies even really exist - and he is a doctor. He  
> doesn't
> understand that he is not supposed to give things that my daughter  
> cannot
> eat - even in small doses. People think I'm a snob not to eat some  
> stuff,
> and they continue to tell me I could at least taste it to see if I  
> like it.
>
> In US, there is quite a bit of knowledge for different food  
> restrictions.
> However, people might not know what is actually in the food (trying  
> to find
> out if something is done with sugar or corn syrup in a restaurant is
> according my experience practically impossible).
>
> I just wanted to show here that there are very different approaches  
> to food
> restrictions in different countries. What seems to be easy, simple,  
> or cheap
> in some countries, is not that easy in others. Also definitions of a
> restrictions are very different.
>
> I'm afraid that the IETF does not have the means to address these  
> issues
> totally. We generally don't offer other food than the snacks during  
> the
> breaks, and they try to please the general public of the IETF. It is  
> clear
> we cannot please everybody. (I cannot ever eat the cookies during the
> breaks. There is always something there I'm allergic to.)
>
> I think the only solution is for us with food restrictions to help
> ourselves, and seek the IETF's and local host's help whenever it is
> available. We could have a group of volunteers and do a "food  
> restrictions
> support group". E.g. We could have a Wiki page in the  
> meeting.ietf.org where
> we could write out knowledge of the local food places, and we  
> together could
> for instance organize drives to the local super market, if needed.
>
> Would people be interested in forming such formal group?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jonne.
>
>
>
>
> On 7/31/08 3:04 PM, "ext Mary Barnes" <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
>> Dale,
>>
>> Do you have food allergies or dietary restrictions?  I've been  
>> dealing
>> with them for 5+ years, as well has having a vegetarian child and  
>> have A
>> LOT of experience in dealing with these issues. I know A LOT about
>> nutrition. I've attended conferences in the past that could cater  
>> to the
>> majority of us with these issues. I have many, many food  
>> restrictions.
>> The hotel here has been accomodating when I've been able to reach  
>> staff
>> to deal with this. These folks are professionals and when they're
>> informed, they know exactly how to meet needs.
>>
>> I have volunteered to help deal with the situation for future  
>> meetings
>> and think it's possible to have a very workable solution.
>> It should not difficult to query the information during registration.
>> I've done it for other conferences - I do it when I send my kids to  
>> camp
>> -  and I'd be happy to sort through it the information and work  
>> with AMS
>> and the venue to at least try to accommodate us.   AFAIK, this has  
>> never
>> been attempted before.
>>
>> In terms of cost, if I can pay the same price for a YMCA/Campfire,  
>> etc.
>> camp for my kids to have their dietary restrictions accomodated,  
>> then I
>> think major hotels/conference venues for which we pay a premium for
>> service can accommodate us. Indeed, the chefs at such would likely be
>> insulted to hear that people don't believe they can do their jobs - 
>> this
>> is a part of their education/training. When I have been able to order
>> food at this venue, it's been handled exceptionally well.
>>
>> Finally, I will add that the reason this problem has been such a HUGE
>> issue at this venue is due to the poor accessiblity to food  
>> markets. In
>> Paris, we just all shopped in the nice market in the venue. In
>> Philadelphia, there was Residence Inn next door and two Whole Foods
>> within walking distance - as a result I only had to eat at  
>> restaurants
>> twice and could easily bring my lunch from the hotel in my lunch  
>> cooler
>> if needed for lunch meetings or just pop back over to the hotel.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Mary
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [e-mail] [mailto:[e-mail] 
>> ]
>> On Behalf Of Dale Worley
>> Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 6:02 AM
>> To: [e-mail]
>> Subject: Re: [72attendees] Dietary restrictions
>>
>> On Thu, 2008-07-31 at 05:12 -0500, Mary Barnes wrote:
>>> Dealing with our dietary restrictions isn't at all difficult if  
>>> things
>>
>>> are properly planned in advance.  All of us that deal with this know
>>> this, but getting the info individually ahead of a meeting can be
>>> difficult. [...]
>>
>>> Any decent chef (available at virtually any venue where we would  
>>> hold
>>> a
>>> meeting) is trained in dealing with all of this. The costs are  
>>> really
>>> minimal, as in most cases it involves leaving out things, using  
>>> basic
>>> ingredients and fresh foods that don't require a lot of prep.
>>
>> Everything I've heard about food service is that costs are  
>> dominated by
>> labor, not food per se.  And of course, the more skilled the labor,  
>> the
>> more expensive it will be.  At least, that holds in software
>> engineering, but I see no reason why food service would be different.
>>
>> Now maybe it *is* of minimal added cost to the venue to make these
>> provisions.  Perhaps we should provide the venue a list of types and
>> numbers of specialized food and ask them what the additional price  
>> would
>> be?  That could provide solid data.  (OTOH, that would require prior
>> notification of the numbers of each dietary restriction -- can we get
>> solid enough commitments?)
>>
>> It sounds like proper prior information might be a way to solve  
>> this at
>> minimal cost.  But again, gathering that information is labor- 
>> intensive,
>> must be done on-site, and requires someone who is sufficiently
>> competent, so that isn't going to be free, either.  What is a good
>> method of accomplishing that?
>>
>> Now let me be clear, I'm not trying to argue for or against any
>> particular solution.  I just want people to understand this isn't an
>> easy problem, and that we need to expend some care and effort to
>> construct a good solution, with attention paid to all the  
>> constraints.
>> If we spend our efforts just complaining that it *should be easy*, we
>> won't construct a workable solution, and the problem will keep
>> recurring.  The only real evidence we have is that we haven't  
>> solved the
>> problem yet, which is pretty good evidence that there is no known
>> solution which works in practice.
>>
>> Dale
>>
>>
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>
> -- 
> Jonne Soininen
> Nokia Siemens Networks
>
> Tel: [phone]
> E-mail: [e-mail]
>
>
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