Re: [72attendees] Dietary restrictions

["Mary Barnes" <[e-mail]>]

I would be happy to work with you to setup up a forum/mailing list or
whatever so that we can cooperatively share information.  I have a Yahoo
group for my local support group and we could setup something similar
collecting information for all the cities we visit (I do that anyways
whenever I travel).  There are resources no the Internet from which we
can pull materials ahead of time. 

I do have a lot of knowledge, due to my own experiences and that of my
children and I run a local food allergy/sensitivity support group (with
medical/nutritional consultants).  And, you are right about your FIL -
most MDs have only a single course on nutrition - most know nothing. 

I honestly believe we could address all restrictions - one of my points
is to be served only "plain" foods (i.e., any sauces/seasonings on the
side, etc.). I have too many food restrictions to list or provide, so I
always specify to prepare my food in as simple a manner as possible.
For example, today, I got a plate with some nice baby lettuce, plain
cooked chicken and carrots. All nicely and freshly prepared. 

My expectation in terms of IETF would be at least provide us the ability
to get lunch - a small buffet of "safe" foods could be provided. It
might get slightly boring BUT I would rather be bored than hungry (we
also have diabetics that MUST eat regular healthy meals).  We can
certainly bring our own snacks or potentially hope there's a fruit we
can eat. I'd also be willing to talk to vendors to get sample snacks for
folks like us (many will do that for marketing). 

I'm not debating that IETF shouldn't ensure that there are quick, easy,
SAD food for folks that don't have these issues. But, having a hotel
make it very difficult to order from a menu isn't effective for those of
us with dietary restrictions.  

Regards,
Mary. 
--I will also make a side comment that if we were to host IETF meetings
in a country or at a venue that did not allow or provide alcohol -
telling everyone to just manage to bring in their own (and deal with
airport security/customs that might not allow such for folks with
particular preferences), I would imagine we'd have TREMENDOUSLY more
discussion on this list :)

-----Original Message-----
From: Soininen Jonne (NSN FI/Espoo) [mailto:[e-mail]] 
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 7:41 AM
To: Barnes, Mary (RICH2:AR00); Dale Worley; [e-mail]
Subject: Re: [72attendees] Dietary restrictions

Hi everybody,

I have some experience with allergies having being allergic for all my
life, them getting worse in the last 8-9 years, noticing in the last
10-15 years how things that didn't use to be in some food, now is there,
and having an allergic child. However, unlike Mary, I know absolutely
nothing about nutrition.

However, what I have noticed (after living in different countries) that
all countries handle different food restrictions very differently. For
instance Finland, the general knowledge of allergies is relatively high
due the amount of allergies we have. However, the knowledge of religious
food restrictions is very low. Countries that have relatively few
allergies (and still relatively homogenous religious population) have
absolutely no knowledge what so ever on any restrictions. My Italian
father-in-law doesn't believe that allergies even really exist - and he
is a doctor. He doesn't understand that he is not supposed to give
things that my daughter cannot eat - even in small doses. People think
I'm a snob not to eat some stuff, and they continue to tell me I could
at least taste it to see if I like it.

In US, there is quite a bit of knowledge for different food
restrictions.
However, people might not know what is actually in the food (trying to
find out if something is done with sugar or corn syrup in a restaurant
is according my experience practically impossible).

I just wanted to show here that there are very different approaches to
food restrictions in different countries. What seems to be easy, simple,
or cheap in some countries, is not that easy in others. Also definitions
of a restrictions are very different.

I'm afraid that the IETF does not have the means to address these issues
totally. We generally don't offer other food than the snacks during the
breaks, and they try to please the general public of the IETF. It is
clear we cannot please everybody. (I cannot ever eat the cookies during
the breaks. There is always something there I'm allergic to.)

I think the only solution is for us with food restrictions to help
ourselves, and seek the IETF's and local host's help whenever it is
available. We could have a group of volunteers and do a "food
restrictions support group". E.g. We could have a Wiki page in the
meeting.ietf.org where we could write out knowledge of the local food
places, and we together could for instance organize drives to the local
super market, if needed.

Would people be interested in forming such formal group?

Cheers,

Jonne.

   


On 7/31/08 3:04 PM, "ext Mary Barnes" <[e-mail]> wrote:

> Dale,
> 
> Do you have food allergies or dietary restrictions?  I've been dealing

> with them for 5+ years, as well has having a vegetarian child and have

> A LOT of experience in dealing with these issues. I know A LOT about 
> nutrition. I've attended conferences in the past that could cater to 
> the majority of us with these issues. I have many, many food
restrictions.
> The hotel here has been accomodating when I've been able to reach 
> staff to deal with this. These folks are professionals and when 
> they're informed, they know exactly how to meet needs.
> 
> I have volunteered to help deal with the situation for future meetings

> and think it's possible to have a very workable solution.
> It should not difficult to query the information during registration.
> I've done it for other conferences - I do it when I send my kids to 
> camp
> -  and I'd be happy to sort through it the information and work with
AMS
> and the venue to at least try to accommodate us.   AFAIK, this has
never
> been attempted before.
> 
> In terms of cost, if I can pay the same price for a YMCA/Campfire,
etc.
> camp for my kids to have their dietary restrictions accomodated, then 
> I think major hotels/conference venues for which we pay a premium for 
> service can accommodate us. Indeed, the chefs at such would likely be 
> insulted to hear that people don't believe they can do their jobs 
> -this is a part of their education/training. When I have been able to 
> order food at this venue, it's been handled exceptionally well.
> 
> Finally, I will add that the reason this problem has been such a HUGE 
> issue at this venue is due to the poor accessiblity to food markets. 
> In Paris, we just all shopped in the nice market in the venue. In 
> Philadelphia, there was Residence Inn next door and two Whole Foods 
> within walking distance - as a result I only had to eat at restaurants

> twice and could easily bring my lunch from the hotel in my lunch 
> cooler if needed for lunch meetings or just pop back over to the
hotel.
> 
> Regards,
> Mary
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [e-mail] 
> [mailto:[e-mail]]
> On Behalf Of Dale Worley
> Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 6:02 AM
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: [72attendees] Dietary restrictions
> 
> On Thu, 2008-07-31 at 05:12 -0500, Mary Barnes wrote:
>> Dealing with our dietary restrictions isn't at all difficult if 
>> things
> 
>> are properly planned in advance.  All of us that deal with this know 
>> this, but getting the info individually ahead of a meeting can be 
>> difficult. [...]
> 
>> Any decent chef (available at virtually any venue where we would hold

>> a
>> meeting) is trained in dealing with all of this. The costs are really

>> minimal, as in most cases it involves leaving out things, using basic

>> ingredients and fresh foods that don't require a lot of prep.
> 
> Everything I've heard about food service is that costs are dominated 
> by labor, not food per se.  And of course, the more skilled the labor,

> the more expensive it will be.  At least, that holds in software 
> engineering, but I see no reason why food service would be different.
> 
> Now maybe it *is* of minimal added cost to the venue to make these 
> provisions.  Perhaps we should provide the venue a list of types and 
> numbers of specialized food and ask them what the additional price 
> would be?  That could provide solid data.  (OTOH, that would require 
> prior notification of the numbers of each dietary restriction -- can 
> we get solid enough commitments?)
> 
> It sounds like proper prior information might be a way to solve this 
> at minimal cost.  But again, gathering that information is 
> labor-intensive, must be done on-site, and requires someone who is 
> sufficiently competent, so that isn't going to be free, either.  What 
> is a good method of accomplishing that?
> 
> Now let me be clear, I'm not trying to argue for or against any 
> particular solution.  I just want people to understand this isn't an 
> easy problem, and that we need to expend some care and effort to 
> construct a good solution, with attention paid to all the constraints.
> If we spend our efforts just complaining that it *should be easy*, we 
> won't construct a workable solution, and the problem will keep 
> recurring.  The only real evidence we have is that we haven't solved 
> the problem yet, which is pretty good evidence that there is no known 
> solution which works in practice.
> 
> Dale
> 
> 
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--
Jonne Soininen
Nokia Siemens Networks

Tel: [phone]
E-mail: [e-mail]


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