Re: [arch-d] FYI: "ISOC" "New IP" "discussion" "paper"

Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de> Tue, 28 April 2020 22:22 UTC

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Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 00:22:19 +0200
From: Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de>
To: Ian Peter <ian.peter@ianpeter.com>
Cc: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>, architecture-discuss@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [arch-d] FYI: "ISOC" "New IP" "discussion" "paper"
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Thanks, Ian

As said in my mail, i think it would be appropriate to how i understood
the spirit of IETF/ISOC to have the ability for a public/open discussion
about the subject matter, so the non-public feedback channel and the
use of a lists where its unclear how to even join it is quite frustrating,
and it would be great if this could be fixed.

As said in response to Brian, maybe a better solution would be
to create some group like "internet-future" at the isoc mail server.

In any case, for a "discussion" paper as this one, it would be great to
point to an actual forum where the discussion can be had.

Cheers
    Toerless

On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 09:58:57PM +0000, Ian Peter wrote:
> Toerless,
> 
> The internetpolicy list in question was dormant for decades, but came to
> life again a few months ago with a substantial discussion on the issues
> surrounding ISOC's proposed sale of Public Internet Registry (PIR) . It's
> fair to say a lot of this discussion was very critical of ISOC's position,
> sometimes quite undiplomatically so. Perhaps some restrictions were placed
> on new memberships in these circumstances? I do not know...
> 
> The "new IP" proposal was posted there a couple of days ago. To date it has
> not provoked much discussion, just a couple of comments equating this with
> the OSI battles 30 years ago. Perhaps more substantial comment will come in
> the near future.
> 
> Ian Peter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "Toerless Eckert" <tte@cs.fau.de>
> To: "Brian E Carpenter" <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
> Cc: architecture-discuss@ietf.org
> Sent: 29/04/2020 7:17:37 AM
> Subject: Re: [arch-d] FYI: "ISOC" "New IP" "discussion" "paper"
> 
> > Thanks, Brian, inline
> > 
> > On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 08:34:53AM +1200, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
> > >  Hi Toerless,
> > > 
> > >  On one point only:
> > > 
> > >  >   internetpolicy@elists.isoc.org does not allow Global ISOC members to
> > >  >   join by themselves, nor do i know if it would welcome discussion.
> > >  >   In fact it is not even listed on the set of pubic ISOC mailing lists.
> > >  >   So the nature of this mailing list seems to be secret to me.
> > > 
> > >  You can join but not in the normal way... you have to go through a
> > >  strange procedure in the Member's Portal or some such place, where I
> > >  believe it's called a "Community" or some such. Can't remember, but it
> > >  was very baroque.
> > 
> > Yes, i tried to exhaust my options in there, but got nowhere,
> > this includes going to
> > 
> > https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/private/internetpolicy/
> > 
> > and attempting to join via that unpublished link.
> > 
> > I don't mind baroque as long as its published, but published information
> > is wrong, and the fact that the list is not included in the published
> > list of ISOC lists makes me wonder if the list lists that are only
> > accessible to ISOC members is even published anywhere...
> > 
> > I did send emails to support.
> > 
> > >  I believe Andrew said that there is work underway to change this.
> > 
> > I did have a bit of discussion about the possibility of
> > a list like "internet-future@elists.isoc.orgc.org, but was told in PM
> > that getting new mailing lists on elists.isoc.org is a
> > process competing with continental drift in speed.
> > 
> > Something like such a list would be a great option IMHO for
> > the ISOC society to participate on not only in discussions about
> > internet history but also its future.
> > 
> > >  However, I don't see any relevant discussion in the (members only)
> > >  archive. Typical subjects recently:
> > > 
> > >  on people not heard (was Re: Language reversion, and an idea)
> > >  OneWeb bankruptcy
> > >  Interview with Parminder on community ownership of data
> > >  Official de-chartering of the Internet Society Ireland Chapter
> > >  North-South issues in the Ditigal Economy
> > >  European Commission solicits feedback on GDPR's efficiency
> > >  Official de-chartering of the Internet Society Ireland Chapter
> > 
> > Given how seemingly non-published internetpolicy mailing list is,
> > i wonder who is even subscribed to it. Not sure if it is possible
> > to figure that out.  I very much liked Jay Daleys reconfirmation
> > that IETF mailing list membership is of public nature. Not sure
> > what ISOC's policy is.
> > 
> > Cheers
> >     Toerless
> > 
> > >  Regards
> > >     Brian
> > 
> > --
> > ---
> > tte@cs.fau.de
> > 
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