Re: [arch-d] FYI: "ISOC" "New IP" "discussion" "paper"

Olaf Kolkman <kolkman@isoc.org> Wed, 29 April 2020 05:59 UTC

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From: "Olaf Kolkman" <kolkman@isoc.org>
To: "Toerless Eckert" <tte@cs.fau.de>
Cc: architecture-discuss@ietf.org
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 07:59:40 +0200
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Subject: Re: [arch-d] FYI: "ISOC" "New IP" "discussion" "paper"
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Hello Toerless,

TL;DR: mailinglist will be available shortly.

In general when the Internet Society develops a position we have a PDP 
process by which we ask our community for feedback using a documented 
process (see 
https://www.internetsociety.org/about-internet-society/policy-development-process/).

For this particular topic we are sill shaping our perspective and view 
and have commissioned this discussion paper. See this paper as public 
version of our preliminary analysis - I hope that the disclaimer on the 
paper is clear about that.

The mail alias in the draft is intended to contact the author and editor 
- it is equal to send a mail to Chip or myself and is a way to provide 
us - ISOC staff - feedback. It is not a substitute for public discussion 
and intended as a convenience alias. If you feel uncomfortable using 
that address and you want to reach any of the authors, feel free to 
reach out to me directly.

As for open discussion.

We will be tracking the (ISOC) lists on which we have announced the 
paper. A default place where members can discuss issues is the Open 
Forum on the Internet Societies Connect platform. Those are all ISOC 
specific, require membership, and are our default channels for 
communication with our membership. For this sort of discussion paper 
I’d agree a broader discussion makes sense. Therefore, we are setting 
up a mailing list which is open for membership and will be publicly 
archived - As soon as its there, I will update the paper and the blog 
with a pointer to its address, and post a follow-up here.

Finally, Arch-D list is not our list and I considered our paper (only 
slightly) off topic. So, I did not post it here. That said, and without 
suggesting that the paper should be discussed here, we (me and my 
colleagues) are following the discussions on this list. The discourse 
here clearly informs us.

I hope this helps, looking forward for substantive feedback once the 
list is there.

—Olaf


On 28 Apr 2020, at 21:06, Toerless Eckert wrote:

> Dear architecture-discuss, Olaf
>
> I hope this forward is beneficial to the IETF architecture-discussion 
> mailing list.
>
> - Even though the the appended email claims that this was widely 
> cross-posted,
>   i did NOT see it in any of the many IETF mailing lists i am 
> subscribed to.
>
> - I could not find any actual public place (mailing list) for an open
>   discussion about he topic of the paper:
>
> - internetpolicy@elists.isoc.org does not allow Global ISOC members to
>   join by themselves, nor do i know if it would welcome discussion.
>   In fact it is not even listed on the set of pubic ISOC mailing 
> lists.
>   So the nature of this mailing list seems to be secret to me.
>
> - NewIP-Discussion-Paper@isoc.org does seem to be just an alias for
>   the authors. Unfortunately, the set of recipient seems to be secret,
>   so i would not know the extend of people who will receive my emails,
>   no would i be able to know about any other feedback (no public 
> archive
>   of the alias). If there was for example any US EAR entity listed
>   recipient on that private mailing list alias, i could be violating
>   US export regulations by sending technical detail explanations to
>   such a non-public alias.
>
> From these few data points, i find the proposed communication 
> mechanisms
> about that paper somewhat confusing, if not concerning, but maybe i do
> misunderstand how ISOC is or is not an open communtiy like i have 
> experienced
> IETF to be.
>
> Cheers
>     Toerless
>
> https://www.internetsociety.org/resources/doc/2020/discussion-paper-an-analysis-of-the-new-ip-proposal-to-the-itu-t/
>
>> On April 28, 2020 at 2:33:06 AM, Olaf Kolkman via InternetPolicy 
>> (internetpolicy@elists.isoc.org) wrote:
>>
>> Dear Colleagues,
>>
>> With the usual cross-post apologies[*].
>>
>> In the run up to the ITU World Telecommunication Standardization 
>> Assembly (WTSA-20) later this year there has been some discussion 
>> about a proposal called the â?oNew IPâ?. It is positioned as a 
>> top-down architecture to solve a number of use cases that are 
>> currently been developed in the ITU-Tâ?Ts Future Network 2030 Focus 
>> Group.
>>
>> The Internet Society is carefully following the developments in the 
>> run-up to WTSA-20. We are trying to understand if and how the New IP 
>> works with the Internet as we know it, if it actually solves problems 
>> that cannot be solved in the Internet, and, if the ITU-T is 
>> developing standards, where other standards development organizations 
>> (SDOs) have change control.
>>
>> In order to get a sense of the environment we commissioned a 
>> discussion paper, â?oAn analysis of the â?~New IPâ?T proposal to 
>> the ITU-T.� The paper helps inform us and the broader community 
>> whilst the public debate around these proposals shapes up. It also 
>> aims to inform and shape the discussion from the Internetâ?Ts 
>> Societyâ?Ts perspective. Eventually the debate around it will inform 
>> our position and the potential further evolution of the discussion 
>> paper itself. Note that the paper documents the Internet Societyâ?Ts 
>> emerging opinion, but does not represent a final Internet Society 
>> position. Instead, we intend it as a means to gather information and 
>> insight from our community on the topic.
>>
>> We welcome any feedback on â?oAn analysis of the â?~New IPâ?T via 
>> the email address NewIP-Discussion-Paper@isoc.org
>>
>> â?"Olaf Kolkman
>>
>> [*] This mail has been sent to various relevant mailing lists and 
>> featured as a blog on the Internet Society website.
>>
>> Olaf M. Kolkman	
>> Principal - Internet Technology, Policy, and Advocacy	
>> Internet Society	Tweets as: @kolkman
>> _______________________________________________
>> To manage your Internet Society subscriptions
>> or unsubscribe, log into the Member Portal at
>> https://admin.internetsociety.org/622619/User/Login
>> and go to the Preferences tab within your profile.
>> -
>> View the Internet Society Code of Conduct: 
>> https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/