Re: [dmarc-ietf] p=quarantine

Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com> Mon, 14 December 2020 18:27 UTC

Return-Path: <mike@fresheez.com>
X-Original-To: dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30FC63A1252 for <dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 14 Dec 2020 10:27:34 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: 0.15
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.15 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=mtcc.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DW0IbaNoLoSn for <dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 14 Dec 2020 10:27:32 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-pj1-x102c.google.com (mail-pj1-x102c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::102c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5F87C3A1244 for <dmarc@ietf.org>; Mon, 14 Dec 2020 10:27:32 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-pj1-x102c.google.com with SMTP id l23so7115787pjg.1 for <dmarc@ietf.org>; Mon, 14 Dec 2020 10:27:32 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mtcc.com; s=fluffulence; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=snWe+bPZ/UpYJ5TPZNmi1yoOH5exWZ/bFZNmAxax14I=; b=DsWzsTlxbS/ootmUui63Wim/qKHvb/vppcPcQFP2317YtJJQA2MuKyAcdMl+t+T1bI mSE6wuwgg0rmjvUCxmg0GkCQ5UoXtPUhW+y5T/ACahSlJBsLur7a6sZlG+llNrypuHpZ fgGYDShLwhzMmGU2fCFDRblrXayQ07DvIXojgHtXraeBZ5wx16yGYsmh6ABLzEod5K5s pPbcQOomvJDHGa1ogf9p1pxFI7voSQ11XHDJVKFL3UTNmpYRqwk7KU+HZyKn2lkTzhgE WDr1wgcMfUBtBjRdzs9TW+KFQv9bwFwWvWd20Pg0N0i0SfLeQvdR7SnE2N+KX9n9evwJ gQeQ==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=snWe+bPZ/UpYJ5TPZNmi1yoOH5exWZ/bFZNmAxax14I=; b=Nbx+yDokzXJBGllrUFJFi4b9+bUk/5+2c8MVO9MTz0XIWKQv9WeWhxgalIPOY8uXm4 7KouclNO+Zxjd//RYftYn0RdDZBuThRftqIV10vBhkFZ9E2Dw+dwz1fPwU4oiPVy5Ucn JoZCGfT9VtSfozMi3hUbX4tXS2Ib04nvMcXHh20WmsEcVgx7GhxFsL2DxEGYQFhRGHcc mJIIveWcsQ38Wypk8vy29f6LODlk65GnNLKvb/tr5ROzF+ITCHocL9bfAJui/Vlhfwua KHsU4WGk65CVPFBqSFZiL+8NtPKykhU6Oc83Aw8blO4YHWdqFROS0UbUuBzkFDbq0C70 RK+A==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530/D3Ka1yRP2Rsw/9z2WI95Ne69HUh+RAOMVuX4bICsgmtuqn+B sgkqBuFUIf0zTpHq7PbyJB4k8NljUBhbpg==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwjYG8UQ/uccC6rlhE27f72Q1glnzZCrkLYy4A7yq25WlM9WYTqz/TorG9Pw/r3h8TZBB6yDQ==
X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:4892:: with SMTP id b18mr15850503pjh.64.1607970451526; Mon, 14 Dec 2020 10:27:31 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mike-mac.lan ([206.107.197.128]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a22sm20822490pfa.215.2020.12.14.10.27.30 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 14 Dec 2020 10:27:30 -0800 (PST)
To: dcrocker@bbiw.net, dmarc@ietf.org
References: <20201211173722.6B4DF29782C7@ary.qy> <ea074aad-971b-abc6-d557-ea2f433b3cc7@gmail.com> <f55992cf-f5b3-42b6-4a38-b184d9243f32@mtcc.com> <52077ae3-0b6a-8532-d21d-4f5b51413ded@dcrocker.net> <4289adb4-4ea2-7e4a-2a33-37608fc2e86e@mtcc.com> <7fed242e-a59c-350d-983b-4701146afa9d@dcrocker.net>
From: Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com>
Message-ID: <c445cd5a-bf6f-0968-49e7-70ef0ad492d5@mtcc.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2020 10:27:29 -0800
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.5.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <7fed242e-a59c-350d-983b-4701146afa9d@dcrocker.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Language: en-US
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dmarc/cG9l3AX5zjOklbUQNaY9UZBdH3w>
Subject: Re: [dmarc-ietf] p=quarantine
X-BeenThere: dmarc@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Domain-based Message Authentication, Reporting, and Compliance \(DMARC\)" <dmarc.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dmarc>, <mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dmarc/>
List-Post: <mailto:dmarc@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmarc>, <mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2020 18:27:34 -0000

On 12/14/20 10:09 AM, Dave Crocker wrote:
> On 12/14/2020 10:00 AM, Michael Thomas wrote:
>> When we tell you it's not a problem,
>
> Except that the telling was by you.  Alone.
>
> And you've yet to respond to the observable fact that receivers have 
> been ignoring the directive language.
>
> Or that many folk misunderstand the semantics of DKIM, thinking it 
> means that message authorship is validated.
>

I'll ignore the whataboutism, but point out that you have never produced 
one piece of evidence where the language of p=reject or any of the other 
previous labels has caused software design decisions to change for the 
worst. I don't even know what would qualify as a mistake. So yes, I'll 
take my direct experience of writing code over your indirect innuendo 
any day.

Mike