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Re: [Gendispatch] I-D Action: draft-halpern-gendispatch-antitrust-03.txt

Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Mon, 24 October 2022 00:45 UTC

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Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2022 13:45:45 +1300
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To: Rob Sayre <sayrer@gmail.com>, Martin Thomson <mt@lowentropy.net>
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References: <166645513843.21794.6131453556595611404@ietfa.amsl.com> <98ae51f1-c680-2867-bcff-8f18c34086af@joelhalpern.com> <3D1B8B24-7BFD-4041-B99F-BF6951C07A27@mnot.net> <b43c9347-878c-474c-c9d4-b657bfdedf19@gmail.com> <6b2b586a-571b-4bcb-8ed3-ce88fb680d00@betaapp.fastmail.com> <CAChr6SxUWXh-nhJMSqjeUt4gH4HVsByZ8N8SjL9iLmCML5YJ_Q@mail.gmail.com>
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [Gendispatch] I-D Action: draft-halpern-gendispatch-antitrust-03.txt
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On 24-Oct-22 12:25, Rob Sayre wrote:
> This issue is covered in section 4.3 ("Obtain Independent Legal Advice") of the document.
> 
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-halpern-gendispatch-antitrust-03.txt#section-4.3 

Sure, but the context is section 4.2 "'yellow flag' Topics". I agree that the current phrasing is a bit slack. Suggestion:

    IETF participants should consult with IETF sources such as working
    group chairs, including IETF legal counsel as needed, to ensure
    that an investigation of these topics follows IETF rules and best
    practices.

Regards,
   Brian

> 
> thanks,
> Rob
> 
> 
> On Sun, Oct 23, 2022 at 4:15 PM Martin Thomson <mt@lowentropy.net <mailto:mt@lowentropy.net>> wrote:
> 
>     On Sun, Oct 23, 2022, at 15:12, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
>      >> * Section 4.2 advises participants to consult with 'IETF legal counsel and/or other IETF experts' [...] who are 'IETF experts'?
>      >
>      > Probably the WG Chairs in the first instance?
> 
>     I think that carries its own risk.  Chairs are neither your lawyer, your company's lawyer, nor are they necessarily expert in the matter.  Though we might expect chairs to be more cognizant of the risks here, I would not rely on them to provide advice.  I might hope that they point in the right direction, but relying on that would be unwise.  At best, we might expect that advice to point to this document.
> 
>     Also, while "IETF experts" are - at least in some cases - highly likely to provide good advice, that is only good to the extent to which these experts share the goal of avoiding anti-trust problems.  While that goal is presumably shared by most participants to a fair extent, that is no substitute for having an unconflicted advocate for your interests.  I would prefer to advise people to seek their own legal advice, or - for those who represent an organization - have the organization they represent seek legal advice.
> 
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