Re: Enough is Enough.

Ofer Inbar <cos@aaaaa.org> Sat, 24 October 2020 16:08 UTC

Return-Path: <cos@mip.polyamory.org>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE5303A0DE1; Sat, 24 Oct 2020 09:08:01 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.647
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.647 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D14Xl5S4KXEm; Sat, 24 Oct 2020 09:08:00 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mip.polyamory.org (mip.aaaaa.org [199.201.145.70]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1E993A0DCD; Sat, 24 Oct 2020 09:08:00 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mip.polyamory.org (Postfix, from userid 1002) id 0C63C10760; Sat, 24 Oct 2020 12:07:59 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2020 12:07:58 -0400
From: Ofer Inbar <cos@aaaaa.org>
To: Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de>
Cc: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" <rwilton=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "legal@ietf.org" <legal@ietf.org>, Khaled Omar <eng.khaled.omar@outlook.com>, "ietf@ietf.org" <ietf@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Enough is Enough.
Message-ID: <20201024160758.GF2632@mip.aaaaa.org>
References: <MN2PR11MB4366A0264CACD3D1B18E82E4B51F0@MN2PR11MB4366.namprd11.prod.outlook.com> <20201024153933.GB52044@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <20201024153933.GB52044@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i
Organization: American Association Against Acronym Abuse
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/WD5751ptqTvUfQRL8nka23TzGCA>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2020 16:08:02 -0000

On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 05:39:33PM +0200,
Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de> wrote:
> Technically, the key reason for not removing the drafts to me is that
> only because Khaled was posting the drafts to the IETF did he get cycles from
> the IETF community that was expressed through many public and (from what i
> read) also private emails. And it could be seen as a disrespect to those
> that did spend cycles on reading those drafts and providing feedback to
> remove the drafts. Especially given how the public exchanges about the
> draft are archived and those archives would not be comprehensible if the
> references documents where removed.

You made it seem like a secondary point, but for me personally, the
main reason not to remove drafts is to make it possible for people
reading the list archives or looking into history later on, to see
what was being discussed at the time and read it directly.

For that reason, I would feel quite uncomfortable if I saw drafts
being removed from the archives merely because the submitter wished to
stop working with the IETF.  Having the drafts present does not
prevent the submitter from ceasing to work with the IETF.  Knowing
that that's all it takes to get a draft removed, would make me feel
about any future draft "this might just disappear later", which
changes the way people might relate to all future proposals.
  -- Cos