Re: Realistic responses to DMARC

Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu> Sun, 18 December 2016 05:58 UTC

Return-Path: <tytso@thunk.org>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 103BB1294A1 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Dec 2016 21:58:39 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -5
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-3.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=thunk.org
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4-3_KoJ7kn_3 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Dec 2016 21:58:37 -0800 (PST)
Received: from imap.thunk.org (imap.thunk.org [IPv6:2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe96:be03]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C1B2E126B6D for <ietf@ietf.org>; Sat, 17 Dec 2016 21:58:37 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=thunk.org; s=ef5046eb; h=In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:Cc:To:From:Date; bh=eJrH4bLNCqtwSZWhyniwGqNq/ZytH7CCd7lHWD6mCzU=; b=DgYtTJ+zIYVXK5kOUkc0eJ17YL3AxurLr177/XhYk/UhloLklGRlpP4ey1Ve820ZXOd4UN7tmPdPpEGNU6GtCmOUddzqZc4/C6zzwxkhUZbPaQgReoPe/x/QfqyL9FnypbescWQ1dX38pJPlp3dU9ZF7gT14sg/TtHx9GDlawgk=;
Received: from root (helo=callcc.thunk.org) by imap.thunk.org with local-esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <tytso@thunk.org>) id 1cIUUV-0002YA-1p; Sun, 18 Dec 2016 05:58:35 +0000
Received: by callcc.thunk.org (Postfix, from userid 15806) id 3EBD1C00605; Sun, 18 Dec 2016 00:58:34 -0500 (EST)
Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2016 00:58:34 -0500
From: Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu>
To: John Levine <johnl@taugh.com>
Subject: Re: Realistic responses to DMARC
Message-ID: <20161218055834.he6gkupqp5xqlvml@thunk.org>
References: <9AD6AAD6812D3B9F8379226B@PSB> <20161218022823.8779.qmail@ary.lan>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <20161218022823.8779.qmail@ary.lan>
User-Agent: NeoMutt/20161126 (1.7.1)
X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: <locally generated>
X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: tytso@thunk.org
X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on imap.thunk.org); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/YU04z3qecf6sdy_BeNUxm_UBA7g>
Cc: john-ietf@jck.com, ietf@ietf.org
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2016 05:58:39 -0000

On Sun, Dec 18, 2016 at 02:28:23AM -0000, John Levine wrote:
> If we tell people, sorry, you can't participate in the IETF using the
> giant mail providers you use for everything else, what do you expect
> the response to be?  Wow, what a bunch of noble principled idealists,
> or wow, I don't have time for this nonsense, maybe I'll go work on
> some open source stuff on github instead.  We have enough trouble
> recruiting people now without putting more roadblocks in their way.

Um, you're assuming that mailing lists serving open source projects
will either (a) knuckle under to the demands of DMARC, or (b) be
willing to inflict the pain caused by DMARC-workarounds on their
users, aren't you?

I can think of one major open source project (namely, the Linux
kernel) which has refused to do either.

	      	  	     	- Ted