Re: [dmarc-ietf] IETF Mailing Lists and DMARC

["Andrew G. Malis" <[e-mail]>]

Hi Steve!

The site goes on to say:

"If you don't take any action here, you're leaving a subset of your
potential subscribers out in the cold. Making them second class citizens,
unable to participate in the mailing lists you're hosting. Be kind, and
don't beat up Yahoo users because of a domain policy that Yahoo choose to
implement (and that Yahoo user is stuck dealing with).”

I certainly agree with that sentiment. And it’s not the DMARC WG that's
responsible for IETF email list support, it’s the admin staff at AMS that
are the ones “caught in the middle”.

Cheers,
Andy

On Thu, Nov 3, 2016 at 2:06 PM, Steve Atkins <[e-mail]>
wrote:

>
> > On Nov 3, 2016, at 10:56 AM, Andrew G. Malis <[e-mail]> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 3, 2016 at 1:30 PM, Terry Zink <[e-mail]>
> wrote:
> > The average Internet user doesn't understand DMARC. The average person
> on an Internet mailing list doesn't understand DMARC either, and even the
> average tech person on a mailing list doesn't understand DMARC. All they
> know is that their mailing list doesn't work, or that they have been
> unsubscribed. Only people who work on DMARC understand DMARC.
> >
> > Asking the average person to switch their email address just so that
> they can participate in mailing lists isn't a solution.
> >
> > Three thumbs up on the last sentiment above - could you imagine saying
> to someone that you need to switch phone providers in order to reach
> certain recipients? And while my current use of gmail allows me to more or
> less get around DMARC list problems (although I need to check my incoming
> spam folder at least daily since mailing list DMARC failures send
> legitimate emails there), there’s no guarantee how long that will continue.
> >
> > And regarding Terry's previous paragraph, while I’m by no means an
> expert on DMARC (or mailman for that matter), a bit of googling tells me
> that there are more recent versions of mailman than what the IETF is
> currently using that support DMARC mitigation. See, for example,
> http://www.spamresource.com/2016/09/dmarc-support-in-mailman.html .
>
> "Mitigating the effects of the DMARC reject policy are difficult. All
> known mitigation techniques break some user expectations and/or degrade the
> user experience. Still, it's incumbent on the Mailman developers to try to
> reduce the pain our users feel, and to provide some options for site and
> list administrators who find themselves caught in the middle."
>
> [e-mail], of all lists, is not one whose administrators are "caught
> in the middle".
>
> Cheers,
>   Steve
>