Re: sr.ht --- "sir hat" --- alternatives to Github
"Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com> Mon, 21 January 2019 07:42 UTC
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Subject: Re: sr.ht --- "sir hat" --- alternatives to Github
To: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>, Lloyd Wood <lloyd.wood@yahoo.co.uk>
Cc: "ietf@ietf.org" <ietf@ietf.org>, "wugh@ietf.org" <wugh@ietf.org>
References: <25946.1547751133@localhost> <2062850122.1176466.1548052316757@mail.yahoo.com> <7C2EF2A7-B267-43BB-9A07-56835D184E71@tzi.org>
From: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
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Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2019 02:41:56 -0500
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Carsten, I think you seriously overstate teh case. There are costs for using any tool. In some cases, those costs are more than paid for by the benefits. In other case, not. We do have basic revision control and archival recovery available already. So the question for using git for developing I-Ds is whether the additional complexity is warranted by the additional value. In some cases, it has been demonstrated to pay off. Clearly, the cost is lower if all of the folks working on the document are already using git for other reasons. Even without that, when there are multiple people actively working on the document, some form of multi-user revision and update control is very helpful. Git seems to be a good match. Many I-Ds have multiple authors, but in practice only one pen-holder. Particularly for simpler I-Ds, the benefits of using git to complement our eixisting archival version control does not seem to pay off. As I understand it, the current state of play is to allow working groups to use git when they deem it helpful. ANd the purpose of the proposed working group is to write down and agree on common good practices when doing that. Pretty hard to argue with that. But to the degree that folks make arguments like yours below that seem to be using it as an excuse to argue that we should all use git all the time, I will object. (To be clear, I do not think that the original proposers were asking for that, and I am not objecting to the charter as written. I am asking the folks remember that there are MANY different perspectives both in terms of tool chains and in terms of the kind of I-Ds that need to be generated. NFSv4 is not the same as QUIC is not the same as the draft on fragmentation considered harmful.) Yours, Joel On 1/21/19 2:18 AM, Carsten Bormann wrote: >> Rather weird to read an entire article talking about 'forges' >> that doesn’t mention SourceForge, the granddaddy of them all > > Sourceforge is the worst choice I’m aware of. > (Yes, we did projects on Sourceforge when they were the only play in town. > We got rid of them when they became criminals [drive-by installers]. > Yes, they have new management, but I have no idea why one would go back.) > >> My take is that, if you're contemplating using git as a necessary >> tool to help you develop and maintain an internet-draft, you should >> question why you’re writing an internet-draft in the first place... > > People who do software know that documents are code and need revision control as much as the other code. Git is the consensus way to do collaborative revision control. Why on earth would I use it for everything else and not for my Internet-Drafts? > > Grüße, Carsten > > (Git is “not necessary” in the same way that toilets are “not necessary”. > Yes, you can do without, but it is so much cleaner with them, so they have become the standard.) > >
- sr.ht --- "sir hat" --- alternatives to Github Michael Richardson
- Re: sr.ht --- "sir hat" --- alternatives to Github Richard Barnes
- Re: sr.ht --- "sir hat" --- alternatives to Github Leif Johansson
- Re: sr.ht --- "sir hat" --- alternatives to Github Lars Eggert
- Re: sr.ht --- "sir hat" --- alternatives to Github Randy Bush
- Re: sr.ht --- "sir hat" --- alternatives to Github Richard Barnes
- Re: sr.ht --- "sir hat" --- alternatives to Github Eric Rescorla
- Re: sr.ht --- "sir hat" --- alternatives to Github Lloyd Wood
- Re: sr.ht --- "sir hat" --- alternatives to Github Carsten Bormann
- Re: sr.ht --- "sir hat" --- alternatives to Github Joel M. Halpern
- Re: sr.ht --- "sir hat" --- alternatives to Github Brian Trammell (IETF)
- Re: sr.ht --- "sir hat" --- alternatives to Github Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: sr.ht --- "sir hat" --- alternatives to Github Eric Rescorla
- Re: sr.ht --- "sir hat" --- alternatives to Github tom petch
- Re: sr.ht --- "sir hat" --- alternatives to Github Richard Barnes
- Re: sr.ht --- "sir hat" --- alternatives to Github tom petch
- Re: sr.ht --- "sir hat" --- alternatives to Github Nico Williams
- Re: sr.ht --- "sir hat" --- alternatives to Github Nico Williams
- Re: sr.ht --- "sir hat" --- alternatives to Github John Levine
- Re: sr.ht --- "sir hat" --- alternatives to Github Hector Santos
- Re: sr.ht --- "sir hat" --- alternatives to Github Richard Barnes
- Re: sr.ht --- "sir hat" --- alternatives to Github Eric Rescorla
- Re: sr.ht --- "sir hat" --- alternatives to Github Michael Richardson
- Re: sr.ht --- "sir hat" --- alternatives to Github Nico Williams
- Re: sr.ht --- "sir hat" --- alternatives to Github Hector Santos
- Re: sr.ht --- "sir hat" --- alternatives to Github Christian Huitema
- Re: sr.ht --- "sir hat" --- alternatives to Github Richard Barnes
- Re: sr.ht --- "sir hat" --- alternatives to Github tom petch
- Re: sr.ht --- "sir hat" --- alternatives to Github Michael Richardson
- Re: sr.ht --- "sir hat" --- alternatives to Github Yoav Nir
- Re: sr.ht --- "sir hat" --- alternatives to Github Lars Eggert
- Re: sr.ht --- "sir hat" --- alternatives to Github Fernando Gont
- Re: sr.ht --- "sir hat" --- alternatives to Github Matthew A. Miller
- Re: sr.ht --- "sir hat" --- alternatives to Github Nico Williams
- Re: sr.ht --- "sir hat" --- alternatives to Github Bob Hinden
- Re: sr.ht --- "sir hat" --- alternatives to Github Matthew A. Miller
- Re: sr.ht --- "sir hat" --- alternatives to Github Lars Eggert
- Re: sr.ht --- "sir hat" --- alternatives to Github Nico Williams
- Re: sr.ht --- "sir hat" --- alternatives to Github lloyd.wood
- Re: sr.ht --- "sir hat" --- alternatives to Github Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: sr.ht --- "sir hat" --- alternatives to Github Randy Bush
- Re: sr.ht --- "sir hat" --- alternatives to Github Eric Rescorla
- Re: sr.ht --- "sir hat" --- alternatives to Github Alissa Cooper
- Re: sr.ht --- "sir hat" --- alternatives to Github Alissa Cooper
- Re: sr.ht --- "sir hat" --- alternatives to Github lloyd.wood
- Re: github is not git, was sr.ht --- "sir hat" --… John Levine
- Re: github is not git, was sr.ht --- "sir hat" --… Randy Bush
- Re: github is not git, was sr.ht --- "sir hat" --… lloyd.wood
- Re: github is not git, was sr.ht --- "sir hat" --… John R Levine
- Re: github is not git, was sr.ht --- "sir hat" --… Nick Hilliard
- Re: github is not git, was sr.ht --- "sir hat" --… lloyd.wood@yahoo.co.uk
- Re: sr.ht --- "sir hat" --- alternatives to Github Eric Rescorla
- Re: github is not git, was sr.ht --- "sir hat" --… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: sr.ht --- "sir hat" --- alternatives to Github Hector Santos
- Re: sr.ht --- "sir hat" --- alternatives to Github Eric Rescorla
- Re: sr.ht --- "sir hat" --- alternatives to Github Hector Santos
- Re: sr.ht --- "sir hat" --- alternatives to Github lloyd.wood
- Re: sr.ht --- "sir hat" --- alternatives to Github Eric Rescorla