Re: COVID-19 contacts tracker (Re: a brief pondering)

"Eric Vyncke (evyncke)" <evyncke@cisco.com> Wed, 15 April 2020 19:14 UTC

Return-Path: <evyncke@cisco.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8FF53A07A6 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 12:14:09 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -9.62
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.62 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=kARIqOaa; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com header.b=l0QKt6y9
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vmctGA9x4m0f for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 12:14:08 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com [173.37.86.73]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4B4673A07A7 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 12:14:08 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2324; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1586978048; x=1588187648; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=hg1lAwLPAGaJAD29x6kTbnukbqxF9TEeecjc/NXLINU=; b=kARIqOaa1fZBKAqgAo6zGFBj+QIuzyJbX9cNQFWz5/H2cNYsxvsFMrJX 8KuEsd9+Wdk05SbwGV26Ygd9+F9AG+uiIIs7SLfIMI0217qAgcg4R4ozr eqQH62PXZDTq1qmvQE+TC+4bUiCQCAjCwf/DJwg1Q36Opx/LubxUNVckU U=;
IronPort-PHdr: 9a23:Fb97xRLJP61xqkGHh9mcpTVXNCE6p7X5OBIU4ZM7irVIN76u5InmIFeBvad2lFGcW4Ld5roEkOfQv636EU04qZea+DFnEtRXUgMdz8AfngguGsmAXEDlPfjhbCESF8VZX1gj9Ha+YgBY
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0AnAACQXJde/4oNJK1mDg0BAQEBAQEBBQEBAREBAQMDAQEBgWgFAQEBCwGBU1AFgUQgBAsqhByDRgOKaYI6JYlyigCEMoEugSQDVAEJAQEBDAEBLQIEAQGERAIXgW0kNQgOAgMBAQsBAQUBAQECAQUEbYVWDIVwAQEBAQIBDgQREQwBASMUAQsEAgEIEQMBAgECAiYCAgIfERUICAIEAQ0FIoMEgkwDDiABo2gCgTmIYnWBMoMAAQEFhSsNC4IOCYEOKgGCYolTGoFBP4E4DBCCTT6CHoVCMoItkSCHFYhrj3xJCoJCkxCEQx2cLo9ci3WQXwIEAgQFAg4BAQWBVAI1N4EgcBVlAYI+UBgNkViDc4oYPXSBKYtZLYE6XAEB
X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.72,388,1580774400"; d="scan'208";a="757737908"
Received: from alln-core-5.cisco.com ([173.36.13.138]) by rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 15 Apr 2020 19:13:45 +0000
Received: from XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com (xch-rcd-001.cisco.com [173.37.102.11]) by alln-core-5.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 03FJDj9k016339 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Apr 2020 19:13:45 GMT
Received: from xhs-rcd-002.cisco.com (173.37.227.247) by XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com (173.37.102.11) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1497.2; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 14:13:45 -0500
Received: from xhs-rtp-001.cisco.com (64.101.210.228) by xhs-rcd-002.cisco.com (173.37.227.247) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1497.2; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 14:13:44 -0500
Received: from NAM12-BN8-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (64.101.32.56) by xhs-rtp-001.cisco.com (64.101.210.228) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1497.2 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 15:13:44 -0400
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=KgmwUeJWXEiVbLBj4dZ0rm+cPauKIVz+KMhqABHUYFKtvNNFSRWPPb4EvtjjnGdacGVUyhbUVclOGXYAMMumukVkYpFLf775BsIbgUA5mqiZqOIoG1MQ1ae8a1FV+MnDIkbO0bGAT6IXVzC/3HrxRfM73p+/uUpvRQTXXuZVFo+vDqvneAjEiwz1URjm3gihnuFaDngPRq0RKEPsHIvF43NXoSKr9BhuEkgnxqary/lsjeRPOHsuU00uqY69hxVDcmUCrE0lJ2LPixSOSHxYgNIRHZDaPOQFkAQOIXKC/pb+YBFC5grZTPAaboWhJGOgg/8sIeOqp87EiICo7nyqXw==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=hg1lAwLPAGaJAD29x6kTbnukbqxF9TEeecjc/NXLINU=; b=SpJWy+Q9lh8y1TsB+BpurIie23xQXLZrDZRLqWtmzkYLjdLtN3GDGoSEQdd6cmQ7ZVG17jS1kJjG2mhWLeAUrk0u0wxwjAwVUPZkcJLfd1EHcDsYbszmx1D41XYc99dAE8tddS7pnz9ajgmv+ulpFgCf5B9V+kLh2g2ATW9MZN28B8CT3IQFAJBs1EfstHyi8lRHh6fu+sD1mNtYCc/yaclwK75i3aLWtaujDkxtmUL0bGERf+JH96XX+1s/Mgg/BTje1NHY5/x7J8WOp25T33LJMbFU+euqMZRgKqHCEoN9/ceCv0f3phtWrrFagdtMD1vM9bzMEyz2eG9Uc3F5tw==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=cisco.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=cisco.com; dkim=pass header.d=cisco.com; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-cisco-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=hg1lAwLPAGaJAD29x6kTbnukbqxF9TEeecjc/NXLINU=; b=l0QKt6y9QF+/9ZbmiyU895XVN/siMuN0SZzOJ/+3hSl1YspSopEICZS3VWng+R+Lhiwc2nG8Zd70/C8M06iMpeUtiicHrUbs4vmVUzbbPjTpWm9l5dxbJAvGROOYn5yXRdiDJVLV6pi0LloieP6nF/cfcKx7/uRROpPH25FlNLQ=
Received: from DM5PR11MB1753.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:3:10d::13) by DM5PR11MB1962.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:3:10c::15) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2900.16; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 19:13:44 +0000
Received: from DM5PR11MB1753.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::7458:f0d0:22b2:6b0c]) by DM5PR11MB1753.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::7458:f0d0:22b2:6b0c%9]) with mapi id 15.20.2900.028; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 19:13:44 +0000
From: "Eric Vyncke (evyncke)" <evyncke@cisco.com>
To: Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>, John Wroclawski <jtw@csail.MIT.EDU>, Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>
CC: IETF <ietf@ietf.org>, Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>
Subject: Re: COVID-19 contacts tracker (Re: a brief pondering)
Thread-Topic: COVID-19 contacts tracker (Re: a brief pondering)
Thread-Index: AQHWE0ATlG0fgmbLNkW59qS0/f+O9qh6YzOAgAAIp4CAABVlgIAALbyA
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2020 19:13:44 +0000
Message-ID: <9BAA57B6-2AB6-4258-88C8-669ABEC62234@cisco.com>
References: <fd6b7ee2-cdbe-14a1-0087-ce61282b22f6@lear.ch> <29D0DCA7-1D72-428F-A6DD-05511D90C039@cable.comcast.com> <2fa6a8c8-7639-a378-2ff1-3f8697556b66@cisco.com> <24cd67ab-df5a-cc2f-745f-ace19d5325ea@network-heretics.com> <59D332BC-F85E-4744-A3D0-2514551154E8@csail.mit.edu> <4E92D147-3ED1-4109-ACC7-DFA16F1D41C2@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <4E92D147-3ED1-4109-ACC7-DFA16F1D41C2@gmail.com>
Accept-Language: fr-BE, en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/16.35.20030802
authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=evyncke@cisco.com;
x-originating-ip: [2001:420:c0c1:36:530:e0f2:ffe1:b8c9]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: d8650508-fd5a-412b-9e85-08d7e1711db0
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DM5PR11MB1962:
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <DM5PR11MB1962D36328AA4FAE2F408FF9A9DB0@DM5PR11MB1962.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:8273;
x-forefront-prvs: 0374433C81
x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:DM5PR11MB1753.namprd11.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFTY:; SFS:(10009020)(4636009)(346002)(366004)(136003)(39860400002)(396003)(376002)(66476007)(54906003)(186003)(8936002)(2906002)(4326008)(71200400001)(6486002)(86362001)(2616005)(66574012)(66946007)(91956017)(6512007)(81156014)(36756003)(53546011)(316002)(6506007)(66556008)(66446008)(110136005)(8676002)(5660300002)(64756008)(478600001)(76116006)(33656002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101;
received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: cisco.com does not designate permitted sender hosts)
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: tE41Gh1j8/p/j4/5UiWzmdA/WCBtMhrYKfNWrOIkdLxrJTZPQbRlGgdeurbYGtORtYmE9+Nz3T5yAqEJUsPZu8IoJ8vVkD+uMn8WdrjXRDIZ0DvRk36PS8oclfluRKIT7rGAT6g+Kk9Tgn56m0QNvVPB4R6qHLt/HV4PGWJWxPkk3sAUK79rcQNA2jymhtz1C7ELqNPKilZW6uKJ7vWV3fgZShE3ZRJkKudJA7yo8C0Od+Vxd5QyPTmKqYONtQNzBwOyCZon29luR1j40kaIrSSV6b6x0Q6WQkfFilVtpPEr9W5RypzL0fF7C9o0z2sUWDAMEDXB4DJ9c+zOrBgBWQkehWzAowktiWMJZeaBMC2WJTPMaPSSFPgiwQZSGu9ajTmQWOzW6GyB5nprefPYZCbFiCfECG91drX+9pZ+6WQs21tdlyeoQij+XO6r2Qhs
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: o7n5CzicBx7semM6nGOiKtCojQYeq8MadWvgNGVSe00nTaPxDCIlWCwM3by6/K4h4Bnam6CbaR/60wFm3Q7MtoWpD2W9M0qc7WOqsOEKpffGQ33O82Jq5Fs+ped96246GtH3tnlrJU927Vfnz2XQRVmUPlbv5aOF5WGqCqCWksgN2jrKFPlfn2BIQahGQ37P4jKNyDDHIgH2qrWaPPEoUA==
x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-ID: <D6765C63D7526D45A592AD2CBF2A3CDC@namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: d8650508-fd5a-412b-9e85-08d7e1711db0
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 15 Apr 2020 19:13:44.0653 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: U7dQcqCjL16FP0i/TlpK1nhIEP4ODID8//hRPe1crYnxYCerouGTILSUFdOGALn5Tj7q1AmZth+ibwZJWDqfyQ==
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM5PR11MB1962
X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com
X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.11, xch-rcd-001.cisco.com
X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-5.cisco.com
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/yzYxiFEQXFVT1CDs6G766I4nluk>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2020 19:14:10 -0000

Bob and Benoît,

I agree for a long-term plan (but also for a short-term action like Hackathon and leveraging some IETF technologies to DISTRIBUTE -- no centralization -- of private info).

The DRIP WG (Drone Remote ID Protocol) has related use cases and technologies (also using Bluetooth BTW)

-éric

-----Original Message-----
From: ietf <ietf-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>
Date: Wednesday, 15 April 2020 at 20:31
To: John Wroclawski <jtw@csail.MIT.EDU>, Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>
Cc: Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>, IETF <ietf@ietf.org>, Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>
Subject: Re: COVID-19 contacts tracker (Re: a brief pondering)

    John, Carsten,
    
    > On Apr 15, 2020, at 10:13 AM, John Wroclawski <jtw@csail.MIT.EDU> wrote:
    > 
    > ….
    > 
    > I think the existence of these things, and the speed they’re moving at, pretty much validates Carsten’s observation that:
    > 
    >> On Apr 15, 2020, at 12:25 PM, Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> wrote:
    >> (1) We are not fast enough.  (Some of us are, but as an organization we aren’t.)
    > 
    
    
    Yes, but I think it’s a mistake to think that this is a one time thing and that it will be done anytime soon.   We shouldn’t get in the way of what MIT/Google/Apple/etc. are doing in the short term, but I do think there is long term value developing something in the IETF that will prepare for the long term.   That has a reasonable balance between tracking for medical vs. political tracking.
    
    Until there is a vaccine this will reoccur, and other pandemics will happen.
    
    Bob