Re: [Internetgovtech] Involvement from other constituencies
S Moonesamy <sm+ietf@elandsys.com> Sat, 01 March 2014 06:41 UTC
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 22:34:45 -0800
To: Pranesh Prakash <pranesh@cis-india.org>, Russ White <russw@riw.us>, Brian Trammell <trammell@tik.ee.ethz.ch>, Andrea Glorioso <andrea@digitalpolicy.it>
From: S Moonesamy <sm+ietf@elandsys.com>
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References: <8E82AC16-6428-412E-A862-6F53AFE632C7@isoc.org> <074FE4AC-76B0-45C2-B849-3BFE5D4782DD@vigilsec.com> <73481820-F228-434C-814A-070F6A2C1F93@gmail.com> <83E315B6-2059-490A-A892-19CF6D74EA62@vigilsec.com> <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D0101E71E6F@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> <CALo9H1a+Tebzmbx=FauNeW5y6Axzhqt5ngE2GYwDBxOz-mBbSQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAOLD2+aimJo05q7KVXYFcSRJdBDxJkqa2q3sH8vFLBsKVnUt5w@mail.gmail.com> <CALo9H1Y-XxR-zEOKh-6n3m6utK+h2U6u5Q_8+nvb_sEer9pZrQ@mail.gmail.com> <CALo9H1amXVE2KX5Yh1+HGQvj7cmJPh5ibm0uQZxxHC2Cvm7GOw@mail.gmail.com> <CAOLD2+ZP9K+rnrw3cNA7dft3JjVRE0a83rXO97TV+kDyWLN+JQ@mail.gmail.com> <01c601cf324b$d0fd9750$72f8c5f0$@riw.us> <CAOLD2+b_GrDt_XDdDGbpm61ug-yuRzLK15q3Y+rDG=OZhN548A@mail.gmail.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20140225114956.0db9bf88@resistor.net> <CAOLD2+Y+_WvKpLhM6vOf+SFUK8YJ9vMKytf3_942XNZGNd7bMg@mail.gmail.com> <D8529204-F46A-498E-8FF2-143B90F950B6@tik.ee.ethz.ch> <02c101cf32fc$d92287e0$8b6797a0$@riw.us> <53116F75.1050208@cis-india.org>
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Subject: Re: [Internetgovtech] Involvement from other constituencies
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Hi Pranesh,
At 21:26 28-02-2014, Pranesh Prakash wrote:
>I couldn't disagree more strongly with this :)
>
>Protocol decisions whether it is the trust system which underlies
>BGP, the CA system, or the attempting to make all public XMPP
>servers use s2s and c2s encryption by default, or many other kinds
>of decisions, are inherently deeply political.
>
>The decision to require all SMTP servers to only prepend to the
>"received" header, has political ramifications. The attempt by so
>many people to "fix" what they see as the broken system of e-mail
>(since until further changes are made[1] there is neither metadata
>integrity (for the most part, discounting that which DKIM covers)
>nor is there any possibility of concealing metadata) is also deeply political.
>
>The question of whether to allow for patent-encumbered standards is
>a deeply political question.[2][3][4]
>
>It is, imho, futile to pretend that engineers don't make political
>decisions all the time.
A technical specification can have a political ramifications. There
are also privacy considerations. I am not sure at the moment whether
to list that under political ramifications or not. I made the
following argument some time ago [1]:
"When a person sends an email the person consents to the transmission of an
email address. The email address is necessary for the recipient
of the email
to be able to reply to it."
I cannot think of another way for the technology to work if, for
example, I do not include an email address for you to send me a
reply. As I have not reviewed the S/MIME draft I prefer not to
comment about it.
There can be political ramifications to BGPSEC, the CA system, and
maybe even email. It would require a lot of people to identify the
political ramifications [2]. Let's say that some entity is created
for all that. The open source people might have a higher barrier to
overcome [3].
A well-written technical standard would have minimized political
ramifications to an extent that it is not worth bothering
about. There is still the intellectual property question. Open
source people usually do not like technical standards which are
covered by patents.
Regards,
S. Moonesamy
1. http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-moonesamy-privacy-identifiers-01
2. There are a lot of technical specifications and different
organizations involved.
3. There is already a high barrier as it is to stay involved.
- [Internetgovtech] US Government response to the E… Russ Housley
- Re: [Internetgovtech] US Government response to t… Gordon Lennox
- Re: [Internetgovtech] US Government response to t… Russ Housley
- Re: [Internetgovtech] US Government response to t… Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch
- Re: [Internetgovtech] US Government response to t… Arturo Servin
- Re: [Internetgovtech] US Government response to t… Andrea Glorioso
- Re: [Internetgovtech] US Government response to t… Gordon Lennox
- Re: [Internetgovtech] US Government response to t… Andrea Glorioso
- Re: [Internetgovtech] US Government response to t… cdel.firsthand.net
- Re: [Internetgovtech] US Government response to t… Andrea Glorioso
- Re: [Internetgovtech] US Government response to t… cdel.firsthand.net
- Re: [Internetgovtech] US Government response to t… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Internetgovtech] US Government response to t… Andrea Glorioso
- Re: [Internetgovtech] US Government response to t… Russ White
- Re: [Internetgovtech] US Government response to t… Andrea Glorioso
- Re: [Internetgovtech] US Government response to t… Russ White
- Re: [Internetgovtech] US Government response to t… Andrea Glorioso
- Re: [Internetgovtech] US Government response to t… Russ White
- Re: [Internetgovtech] US Government response to t… Andrea Glorioso
- Re: [Internetgovtech] US Government response to t… Russ White
- Re: [Internetgovtech] US Government response to t… Andrea Glorioso
- Re: [Internetgovtech] US Government response to t… Russ White
- Re: [Internetgovtech] US Government response to t… John Curran
- Re: [Internetgovtech] US Government response to t… Andrea Glorioso
- Re: [Internetgovtech] US Government response to t… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Internetgovtech] US Government response to t… Andrea Glorioso
- Re: [Internetgovtech] US Government response to t… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Internetgovtech] US Government response to t… Andrea Glorioso
- Re: [Internetgovtech] US Government response to t… John Curran
- Re: [Internetgovtech] US Government response to t… Eric Brunner-Williams
- Re: [Internetgovtech] US Government response to t… JFC Morfin
- Re: [Internetgovtech] US Government response to t… Eric Brunner-Williams
- Re: [Internetgovtech] US Government response to t… Jefsey
- Re: [Internetgovtech] US Government response to t… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [Internetgovtech] US Government response to t… Andrea Glorioso
- Re: [Internetgovtech] US Government response to t… Russ White
- Re: [Internetgovtech] US Government response to t… Andrea Glorioso
- Re: [Internetgovtech] US Government response to t… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Internetgovtech] US Government response to t… Andrea Glorioso
- [Internetgovtech] A "healthy" or a "secure" inter… S Moonesamy
- Re: [Internetgovtech] A "healthy" or a "secure" i… Andrea Glorioso
- Re: [Internetgovtech] A "healthy" or a "secure" i… S Moonesamy
- Re: [Internetgovtech] US Government response to t… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Internetgovtech] US Government response to t… Andrea Glorioso
- Re: [Internetgovtech] US Government response to t… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Internetgovtech] US Government response to t… Andrea Glorioso
- Re: [Internetgovtech] US Government response to t… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Internetgovtech] US Government response to t… Pranesh Prakash
- Re: [Internetgovtech] US Government response to t… Arturo Servin
- Re: [Internetgovtech] US Government response to t… Andrea Glorioso
- Re: [Internetgovtech] US Government response to t… Russ White
- Re: [Internetgovtech] US Government response to t… Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch
- Re: [Internetgovtech] US Government response to t… Andrea Glorioso
- Re: [Internetgovtech] US Government response to t… Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch
- Re: [Internetgovtech] US Government response to t… Andrea Glorioso
- Re: [Internetgovtech] US Government response to t… Andrea Glorioso
- [Internetgovtech] Involvement from other constitu… S Moonesamy
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Involvement from other cons… Andrea Glorioso
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Involvement from other cons… Brian Trammell
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Involvement from other cons… Russ White
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Involvement from other cons… Avri Doria
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Involvement from other cons… Pranesh Prakash
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Involvement from other cons… S Moonesamy
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Involvement from other cons… Pranesh Prakash
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Involvement from other cons… Brian Trammell
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Involvement from other cons… Russ White
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Involvement from other cons… John Curran
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Involvement from other cons… Russ White
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Involvement from other cons… John Curran
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Involvement from other cons… Russ White
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Involvement from other cons… John Curran
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Involvement from other cons… S Moonesamy
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Involvement from other cons… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Involvement from other cons… John Curran
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Involvement from other cons… Jefsey
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Involvement from other cons… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Involvement from other cons… Suzanne Woolf
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Involvement from other cons… Andrea Glorioso
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Involvement from other cons… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Involvement from other cons… Suzanne Woolf
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Involvement from other cons… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Involvement from other cons… Andrea Glorioso
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Involvement from other cons… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Involvement from other cons… Andrea Glorioso
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Involvement from other cons… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Involvement from other cons… Andrea Glorioso
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Involvement from other cons… Russ White
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Involvement from other cons… Andrea Glorioso
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Involvement from other cons… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Involvement from other cons… Andrea Glorioso
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Involvement from other cons… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Involvement from other cons… Andrea Glorioso
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Involvement from other cons… Jefsey
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Involvement from other cons… John Levine
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Involvement from other cons… Jefsey
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Involvement from other cons… Andrea Glorioso
- Re: [Internetgovtech] US Government response to t… Russ Housley
- Re: [Internetgovtech] US Government response to t… Jefsey
- Re: [Internetgovtech] US Government response to t… Jefsey
- Re: [Internetgovtech] US Government response to t… Gordon Lennox