Re: [Manycouches] Daniel presentation @ 113 - carbon emissions

[Alexandre Petrescu <[e-mail]>]

I agree and thank you for the numbers.

Le 12/04/2022 à 18:43, Daniel Migault a écrit :
> Hi,
> 
> We are mostly talking about reducing the number of IETF meetings as 
> three meetings represents on average 12 673 tonnes of CO2 / year. 

12673 tonnes?

I found 1500 tonnes, or roughly 1.500.000 kg CO2, to be needed for 500 
IETFers return travelling Paris-NYC for all 3 IETFs a year.

Air France calculator https://corporate.airfrance.com/fr/co2/calculateur

Alex

It is
> measurable. It is a main source of upstream emissions in corporate 
> organizations (see [1]). We have a direct impact on it. It is a direct 
> offset and it shows the path to other organizations.
> 
> I do agree that we need to focus on the solutions that have the most 
> potential. This is especially where offset can be challenged and the 
> reason to publish a sustainability and corporate responsibility report 
> for the IETF - as did Ericsson recently for example [1].
> 
> As a side comment, the evocation of the kerosene lamps - at the shmoo 
> meeting resonated with me a bit with a 1000'nish wealthy people asking 
> 1.3 billion of (poor) people to replace their lamp so we can travel. I 
> would like to clarify that the intent was to illustrate that one needs 
> to focus where it has the most impact.
> 
> The potential that protocol represents remains to be shown. I am happy 
> that those raising such assertions share their data, publications. So 
> far - as mentioned in the session - my understanding is that most 
> emissions come from the extraction, manufacturing and transport of the 
> products. As a result, I am relatively not optimistic on the impact of a 
> section "Carbon emissions considerations" - but happy to be wrong.
> 
> Yours,
> Daniel
> 
> [1] 
> https://www.ericsson.com/en/about-us/sustainability-and-corporate-responsibility/sustainability-report 
> <https://www.ericsson.com/en/about-us/sustainability-and-corporate-responsibility/sustainability-report>
> 
> On Tue, Apr 12, 2022 at 11:29 AM Eliot Lear <[e-mail] 
> <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
> 
>     Hi Jay,
> 
>     Thanks for your message.  Please see below.
> 
>     On 12.04.22 11:56, Jay Daley wrote:
>>     Hi Eliot
>>
>>     The major point about offsetting, which I think we agree about, is
>>     that offsetting is an "after the fact" action, not a preventative
>>     measure.  I understand that some will say "what’s the harm in
>>     meeting X times, if we offset all the emissions" but, without
>>     commenting on the rights and wrongs of that, the response to that
>>     should not be to attack offsetting as a concept.  Instead, we
>>     should be taking the approach that it is vital for us to offset
>>     all of our emissions, whatever the level of those emissions.  In
>>     other words whether we meet three times a year or once a year, we
>>     should be offsetting those emissions.
> 
>     I 100% agree.  And I further agree that we MUST meet.  I opine that
>     we should meet in person LESS but when we do meet, we SHOULD offset
>     our impact.  What we SHOULDN'T do is think of offsets as a pure
>     substitute.
> 
> 
>>
>>     When it comes to choosing the offsetting mechanism(s), the plan I
>>     outlined at shmoo was to bring in experts to hold some open
>>     sessions where they explain the various methods and help us make
>>     an informed choice.  As someone in shmoo pointed out, one of the
>>     largest aggregate emitters of carbon are kerosene lamps and
>>     schemes aimed at replacing those are direct offset schemes, not a
>>     carbon credit market.
>>
>     Good to know.
> 
> 
>>
>>     When we discuss how often to meet in person, I strongly recommend
>>     looking at the data from our post-meeting surveys:
>>     https://www.ietf.org/how/meetings/past/
>>     <https://www.ietf.org/how/meetings/past/> Reading through all of
>>     those shows some clear data points:
>>
>>     - productivity at in-person meetings is, on average, much higher
>>     than remote meetings,.  Sure, we can’t quantify this and we don’t
>>     have the other links in the chain to measure if that increase in
>>     productivity leads to a reduction in effort elsewhere.
>>
>>     - the ability of people to come to in-person meetings depends very
>>     much on where the meeting is held.  If we drop down to one meeting
>>     per year then we will rotate through every region over a three
>>     year cycle and for many people that will mean they can only meet
>>     in person once every three years.
>>
>>     Neither of those are meant to be "that’s why we should continue to
>>     meet 3x a year" arguments, just points to consider in the overall
>>     debate.
> 
>     As I wrote, I didn't provide a specific recommendation.  That's
>     because I could see this working in quite a number of ways forward,
>     and I'd like to see shmoo explore them.  A few possibilities include
>     the following:
> 
>       * Mandatory virtual interim meetings at a certain tempo
>       * Mandatory in-person interim meetings
>       * Raising the requirements for working groups to meet in person,
>         including at the plenary meetings.
>           o Required controversy
>           o Virtual meetings held
>       * A cap on the number of in person meetings for working groups.
> 
>     These are just a few possibilities, and it is by no means an
>     exhaustive list.
> 
>     I realize figuring our way forward here would wreak havoc with our
>     conference planning, and with the lives of the people who provide us
>     an excellent experience, but at least to me, the risks of not acting
>     are too high.
> 
>     Eliot
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Daniel Migault
> Ericsson
> 
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