IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [Ntp] Antw: [EXT] Re: Quick review of WGLC for status change for draft‑ietf‑ntp‑update‑registries

Martin Burnicki <martin.burnicki@meinberg.de> Tue, 09 August 2022 11:06 UTC

Return-Path: <martin.burnicki@meinberg.de>
X-Original-To: ntp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ntp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2C32C15A737 for <ntp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 9 Aug 2022 04:06:33 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.107
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.107 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=meinberg.de
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Mpv8kINHJtxa for <ntp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 9 Aug 2022 04:06:29 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from server1a.meinberg.de (server1a.meinberg.de [176.9.44.212]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 380FFC159486 for <ntp@ietf.org>; Tue, 9 Aug 2022 04:06:29 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from seppmail.py.meinberg.de (unknown [193.158.22.2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by server1a.meinberg.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5462671C04CC; Tue, 9 Aug 2022 13:06:27 +0200 (CEST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=meinberg.de; s=d2021; t=1660043187; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=WpCqK3GG7cG5KIsnkBO5vr7y/ff/rU7ivNJiDwbX/U0=; b=iupIlIgmMzviDyj3Ayh9SMbFZGjsl7tXuVUoUgz1zvZ8HjYwnUP2dyT/I0PgcDPMT5eyGX WS+iHybLZ7WN0T9WGzClocNu8Mn+RsfPG7Wb37fwor+j4SBygAQi47is3NOdmIubG5dqp4 UBoyaKkbtNSW58d5BqP9DHpFbOTAflnH8N4+Eybe8Vj3/j+CDActf7GXjv/OUTHekfgUkA lc+lPOhveJw22INGlVXuiJ0XJ2jbVOJ41Qyf0J/BNsFT/2ZtyVBRDKGh/jQkeogeGILuQr P+CeJSybwN5BTjq4TU5/rRNQya8bCUYE/MDJ05Ac4G3Mw3k4lM0KwCuY3Iv1GQ==
Received: from srv-kerioconnect.py.meinberg.de (srv-kerioconnect.py.meinberg.de [172.16.3.65]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher AEAD-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by seppmail.py.meinberg.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Tue, 9 Aug 2022 13:06:26 +0200 (CEST)
X-Footer: bWVpbmJlcmcuZGU=
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by srv-kerioconnect.py.meinberg.de with ESMTPSA (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256 bits)); Tue, 9 Aug 2022 13:06:26 +0200
Message-ID: <5d991dc1-5bf0-dc6f-5b21-aef97b912956@meinberg.de>
Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2022 13:06:25 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.9.0
Content-Language: en-US
To: Miroslav Lichvar <mlichvar@redhat.com>
Cc: Hal Murray <halmurray@sonic.net>, "ntp@ietf.org" <ntp@ietf.org>, Harlan Stenn <stenn@nwtime.org>
References: <20220809103929.01C4B28C1CA@107-137-68-211.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net> <814ad60b-c655-8396-6457-b83fa20cbeda@meinberg.de> <YvI+eXTcs6/0iShK@localhost>
From: Martin Burnicki <martin.burnicki@meinberg.de>
Organization: Meinberg Funkuhren GmbH & Co. KG, Bad Pyrmont, Germany
In-Reply-To: <YvI+eXTcs6/0iShK@localhost>
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha256"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------EW2zT75eqCEFGVxR51cFXj1a"
X-SM-outgoing: yes
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ntp/uW724PiJeaTwNgckuN8n7MqNB98>
Subject: Re: [Ntp] Antw: [EXT] Re: Quick review of WGLC for status change for draft‑ietf‑ntp‑update‑registries
X-BeenThere: ntp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: Network Time Protocol <ntp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ntp>, <mailto:ntp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ntp/>
List-Post: <mailto:ntp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ntp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ntp>, <mailto:ntp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2022 11:06:33 -0000

Miroslav Lichvar wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 09, 2022 at 12:46:05PM +0200, Martin Burnicki wrote:
>> Hal Murray wrote:
>>> You haven't looked very hard.  Ballpark of 1% at pool servers.
>>
>> Really v1 implementations that are decades old?
>>
>> Or just the result of software developers that write their own NTP client,
>> didn't look at the specs, and simply put v1 into the request packets that in
>> fact have a v4 format?
> 
> A significant fraction of the NTPv1 traffic looks like this:
> 
>      xxxxxx.59313 > xxxxxx.ntp: NTPv1, unspecified, length 48
> 	Leap indicator:  (0), Stratum 0 (unspecified), poll 0 (1s), precision 0
> 	Root Delay: 0.000000, Root dispersion: 0.000000, Reference-ID: (unspec)
> 	  Reference Timestamp:  0.000000000
> 	  Originator Timestamp: 0.000000000
> 	  Receive Timestamp:    0.000000000
> 	  Transmit Timestamp:   0.000000000
> 	    Originator - Receive Timestamp:  0.000000000
> 	    Originator - Transmit Timestamp: 0.000000000
> 
> The mode field from the future NTP versions is 0, i.e. it's a valid
> NTPv1 request. I guess it's a result of minimizing the number of bits
> that need to be set in the message (only one).

I still doubt that this is from a real NTPv1 implementation. Over the 
years I have seen quite a number of customers who thought they could 
quickly and simply write their own NTP client. I still believe this is 
due to programmers who don't know what they are doing.

Martin
-- 
Martin Burnicki

Senior Software Engineer

MEINBERG Funkuhren GmbH & Co. KG
Email: martin.burnicki@meinberg.de
Phone: +49 5281 9309-414
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/martinburnicki/

Lange Wand 9, 31812 Bad Pyrmont, Germany
Amtsgericht Hannover 17HRA 100322
Geschäftsführer/Managing Directors: Günter Meinberg, Werner Meinberg, 
Andre Hartmann, Heiko Gerstung
Websites: https://www.meinberg.de  https://www.meinbergglobal.com

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email