Re: [RAI] Global Service Provider ID - draft-pfautz-service-provider-identifier-urn-01

[Hadriel Kaplan <[e-mail]>]

Nothing stops anyone from asking for a SPID and claiming to be one.
It's just useless to them in practice.  The iPhone app won't be able to force AT&T nor anyone else to treat them as a service provider, so AT&T will just overwrite whatever SPID value the iPhone app inserts in SIP signaling sent to AT&T, not use it for anything in AT&T databases, etc.

Obviously the iPhone app could use the number space for its own private uses, or could use them with others in some federation of its own, but I think even they would recognize a 32-bit number isn't big enough for such purposes, and registering every number through IANA is painful for something like that anyway.

The most likely "unexpected" thing to happen is something like freenum.org<http://freenum.org>, which re-used the ITAD number space for their own ENUM service lookup.  They, or some service like them, could arguably switch to using SPIDs instead… but even then they've only used ~1500 ITAD numbers so far, and arguably they've kept to the basic concept of ITADs/SPIDs whereby each number represents a VoIP provider not a device.

-hadriel


On Sep 29, 2011, at 1:32 PM, Michael Hammer wrote:

Penn,
If economics and regulation conspire to make it valuable to do so, then
what stops someone from writing an iPhone app that makes everyone a service provider?
I try to see what unintended consequences may result if not managed in advance.
Mike

On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 12:14 PM, PFAUTZ, PENN L <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
Mike:
E.164 number serving carriers is but one application but even there we are not talking about limiting to carriers-of-record as defined in RFC5067. On the other hand I don’t see SPID as the kind of thing every Internet addressable entity would have (i.e., IPv6 addresses). I don’t even see the number of SPIDs approaching the order of magnitude number of people on the planet based on existing use cases.

Penn Pfautz
AT&T Access Management
[phone]<tel:%2B1-732-420-4962>
From: Michael Hammer [mailto:[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>]
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 11:56 AM
To: PFAUTZ, PENN L
Cc: Dean Willis; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>

Subject: Re: [RAI] Global Service Provider ID - draft-pfautz-service-provider-identifier-urn-01



Penn,

If the basis of the distrution is owners of E.164 numbers, then that implicitly limits the number of SPs possible (and thus SPIDs needed), since other arrangements limit who may be delegated those numbers.

If there is no basis and anyone may apply, then the distribution tail could extend to the limits of how many entities are addressable on the Internet, aka the number of IPv6 addresses.

The question is whether there Should be some threshhold over which the owner of some addresses would be deemed too small to be a "service provider"?  (Cut the tail off at some point.)

The derivative of that will also determine the likely number of registrations per year and the load on IANA.

Mike Hammer


On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 9:08 AM, PFAUTZ, PENN L <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
Dean:
I see the case as being..." more of a long-tailed distribution where a few SPIDs have
tens-of-millions of entities and it tapers off to the right" if by entities we mean E.164 numbers or some other form of identifiers.

That is certainly how it would be the for use cases that the drinks WG, the GSMA, and the i3 Forum are looking at.

Penn Pfautz
AT&T Access Management
[phone]<tel:%2B1-732-420-4962>
-----Original Message-----
From: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]> [mailto:[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>] On Behalf Of Dean Willis
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 8:29 PM
To: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [RAI] Global Service Provider ID - draft-pfautz-service-provider-identifier-urn-01

On 9/28/11 3:27 PM, Richard Shockey wrote:
> Yea .. 4.3 million "possible" registrations and what is in the registry 1482
> registrations.
>
> Plus ICANN certainly has the money ..too much money if you ask me.

Nothing says they can't charge for a registration. So Adam's right; if
business booms, they'll find a way to make an industry out of it. Not
our worry. (But I do want to see the face of somebody at IANA when we
tell them we're planning for 1,000,000 registrations a year).

However, making sure they don't run out of inventory probably IS our
problem.


While I agree that 32 bits is PROBABLY enough for the forseeable future,
if we're going to do something besides ITAD then we might as well go to
64. But if we're happy with ITAD structurally, there may not be enough
justification to do more.

At 100 entities per SPID, 32 bits gives us some 430 million entities.
That's rather short of the 20 billion entities we might see in the very
near term. Even at 1000 entities per SPID, we're still a factor of 5
short in the near term.

So what sort of entities-per-SPID ratio are we willing to assume?
Remember that some entities may have more than one number (I have, at
last count, 23, including the four companies I currently control).

Is it more of a long-tailed distribution where a few SPIDs have
tens-of-millions of entities and it tapers off to the right?

--
Dean


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