Re: [rtcweb] Codec Draft

[Rob Glidden <[e-mail]>]

Cary:

I have not seen a specific follow up text, but video codec requirements 
section appears overtaken by events and should be changed.

Here is proposed text that will hopefully reflect consensus spirit:

...
3.2. Video Codec Requirements
If the MPEG-LA issues an intent to offer H.264 baseline profile on a 
royalty free basis for use in browsers before March 15, 2012, then the 
REQUIRED video codecs will be H.264 baseline. If this does not happen by 
that the date, then the REQUIRED video codec will be VP8 [I-D.webm].

The REQUIRED video codec will be a royalty-free codec which has been 
specified by a recognized standards process such as MPEG or other 
due-process standards group and provide reviewable substantiation of its 
royalty-free status.
...

For background, see:

MPEG news: a report from the 98th meeting, Geneva, Switzerland 
<http://multimediacommunication.blogspot.com/2011/12/mpeg-news-report-from-98th-meeting.html>
ISO/IEC MPEG to select from two options for royalty-free video 
<http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/ISO-IEC-MPEG-to-select-from-two-options-for-royalty-free-video-1392734.html> 

Royalty-Free MPEG Video Proposals Announced 
<http://slashdot.org/submission/1875776/royalty-free-mpeg-video-proposals-announced>
MPEG Plus or Patent Pool Lite? MPEG Mulls Royalty-Free Proposals 
<http://www.robglidden.com/2011/12/mpeg-plus-or-patent-pool-lite-mpeg-mulls-royalty-free-proposals/>
Half of MPEG-2 Patents Expire in 2012 
<http://www.robglidden.com/2011/12/half-of-mpeg-2-patents-expire-in-2012/>

Rob


  Re: [rtcweb] Codec Draft

------------------------------------------------------------------------

  * /From/: "Bran, Cary" <Cary.Bran at plantronics.com
    <mailto:[e-mail]>>
  * /To/: Stephan Wenger <stewe at stewe.org <mailto:[e-mail]>>
  * /Cc/: "rtcweb at ietf.org <mailto:[e-mail]>" <rtcweb at
    ietf.org <mailto:[e-mail]>>
  * /Date/: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 22:00:26 +0000
  * /References/: <E37C139C5CB78244A781E9E7B721527B5485F6 at
    USSCMB03.plt.plantronics.com
    <mailto:[e-mail]>>
    <CAD841DD.330F9%stewe at stewe.org
    <mailto:[e-mail]>>
  * /List-id/: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group
    list <rtcweb.ietf.org>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

After further review, I think I get your point, my apologies if I caused 
any confusion.

What I meant to say was that I believe we have captured areas where we 
have consensus in the draft.  Obviously at this time there is no 
consensus as to which audio/video codecs will be mandatory to implement 
yet.     To be clear here, in the draft we put in a proposal for a 
mandatory to implement codec and we should have qualified it as an open 
issue, where we have no consensus.

Stephan, if you or anyone else, has a proposal as to what to add to the 
list, we would be more than happy to add it to the document and 
correctly label the areas where we have no consensus in an attempt to 
facilitate the discussion.

Regards,

-Cary

*From:*Bran, Cary
*Sent:* Thursday, November 03, 2011 2:02 PM
*To:* 'Stephan Wenger'
*Cc:* rtcweb at ietf.org
*Subject:* RE: [rtcweb] Codec Draft

Good points Stephan.

I agree that more discussion is needed and all I am proposing here is a 
document to capture the groups collective thinking.  I will defer to the 
chairs to decide on timing.

Cheers,

-Cary

*From:*Stephan Wenger [mailto:stewe at stewe.org]
*Sent:* Thursday, November 03, 2011 1:28 PM
*To:* Bran, Cary; rtcweb at ietf.org
*Subject:* Re: [rtcweb] Codec Draft

Hi Cary, WG,

Cary, how did you come to your conclusion that the WG has achieved 
consensus on a subject like this:

    If the MPEG-LA issues an intent to offer H.264 baseline profile on a

    royalty free basis for use in browsers before March 15, 2012, then

    the REQUIRED video codecs will be H.264 baseline.  If this does not

    happen by that the date, then the REQUIRED video codec will be VP8

    [I-D.webm].

Or this

    WebRTC clients are REQUIRED to implement the following audio codecs.

  

     [...]

  

    o  Opus [draft-ietf-codec-opus]

I may have missed it in the flood of emails on this reflector, but I do 
not recall having seen any discussion whatsoever towards a decision 
between the two video codecs mentioned, let alone a decision made on 
commercial constraints and an attached timeline.  Please note that I 
could most likely agree to the video codec issues as drafted, with the 
exception of the timeline, which is IMO overly and unnecessarily ambitious.

Similarly, I do not recall a sufficiently in-depth discussion about 
audio codecs (though there has been a bit more discussion on the 
reflector in this regard).  I find it strange that we consider making an 
declared-as-royalty-bearing audio codec mandatory, without even having 
the slightest idea of the licensing terms beyond the RAND terms offered. 
  Strangely, we are not providing the right holder with a timeline 
similar as the one used for H.264.  Perhaps we should work with the 
Qualcomm guys to see whether they would be willing to provide an RF 
license with a field of use restriction to webrtc.  As the very minimum, 
I would request the opus codec being profiled such that most obvious 
matches between patent claims offered under royalty bearing RAND terms 
and opus encoder and decoder as to be used in webrtc be eliminated.

To summarize, without having those (and perhaps a few more) points 
discussed in public on the reflector, I believe that it is too early to 
adopt your draft as a WG draft.

Stephan

*From: *"Bran, Cary" <Cary.Bran at plantronics.com 
<mailto:Cary.Bran%20at%20plantronics.com>>
*Date: *Mon, 31 Oct 2011 22:25:48 +0000
*To: *"rtcweb-chairs at tools.ietf.org 
<mailto:rtcweb-chairs%20at%20tools.ietf.org>" <rtcweb-chairs at 
tools.ietf.org <mailto:rtcweb-chairs%20at%20tools.ietf.org>>
*Cc: *"rtcweb at ietf.org <mailto:rtcweb%20at%20ietf.org>" <rtcweb at 
ietf.org <mailto:rtcweb%20at%20ietf.org>>
*Subject: *[rtcweb] Codec Draft

Hello WebRTC chairs,

I have updated and submitted a 02 version of the WebRTC Codec draft: 
http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-cbran-rtcweb-codec-01.txt

I believe that this draft is representative of areas where the working 
group has achieved consensus and at this time I would like to ask that 
the 01 draft be adopted as a working group document.

I look forward to your feedback.

Regards,

*Cary Bran*

Senior Director Advanced Software Technology and Architecture

Office:  [phone]     Cell: [phone]

*Plantronics*Simply Smarter Communications^(TM)

345 Encinal St., Santa Cruz, CA 95060

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Rob