Re: New document shepherd writeup

John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net> Thu, 05 May 2022 01:26 UTC

Return-Path: <jgs@juniper.net>
X-Original-To: wgchairs@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: wgchairs@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F21C3C14F74C for <wgchairs@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 4 May 2022 18:26:44 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.673
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.673 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.575, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=juniper.net header.b=bNaOm3u5; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=juniper.net header.b=eRyQh528
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Nv9OuGXOHnUe for <wgchairs@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 4 May 2022 18:26:41 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com (mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com [67.231.152.164]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 29853C14F741 for <wgchairs@ietf.org>; Wed, 4 May 2022 18:26:41 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from pps.filterd (m0108163.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com (8.17.1.5/8.17.1.5) with ESMTP id 244KoXLM025703; Wed, 4 May 2022 18:26:28 -0700
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=juniper.net; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=PPS1017; bh=nwZ66yX6hHhpwt/sY4IgpCq/M7QI9Gk/o94h6ymJk7s=; b=bNaOm3u5YlzNB+LrGAvdU8HODylwLJxCWs7PxnJGUPamQXhwegj/AHx91/r9rnVA5tyd rpkDteugxXFLCv1ZDlu2KNy+TR3gl0eNRbNT1rjJBdRP7UVQYnapPJN34teWwtsbOhu3 eZy6p9IjL8TvxxrNjZqPcyoQN0wzthTenMp5DhDTbEy2GxbCF7xdy9g1SG53zeH6X6ab IPBiyqe6JOgXC3lMtlKPpg9ePUt2U38GL19piDl3P7SlWTgya3x+DA5o0UiswbY858Ot gqg8Pb1RAo7KAj4eWRz81HtBlzgyhkRU2R5Ba5ORTP1XjgmmNanitSXhj1+xbCKjyZge pg==
Received: from nam04-mw2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-mw2nam08lp2173.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.73.173]) by mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com (PPS) with ESMTPS id 3fuxx2rkyy-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 04 May 2022 18:26:28 -0700
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=XfH0x9CahcwEKAqy2vZw7+/fSHBcmk9qwpmUUkl3beEGyIDRnUfIkzowFPYrNn5Xil3TBxMbivVeLvbP+fzmSmEedfDlgGvb6nflo+oS1y9oi0iTnq+q6FtmloNKkqRlZkGv6MqhCKUSeQ8cQ6hQ93IKd56qbYEQZ5jh4TDoCKSWrmW1cdJYgMCdqrd5uO1tzx9FAiotr/RQynxmkqjsb0fOygSVTt3Pcjbw1TuD4DFHjUnTYiDxHRkXiw+wy9j8W/o08AvM+LiHonPJNz0wsvu6fygB3G5h1m2QG8NszRDdOaWyXd24WAOVULiMEtlflxLJjoQ0JpqkBLbJ4Gbkpw==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=nwZ66yX6hHhpwt/sY4IgpCq/M7QI9Gk/o94h6ymJk7s=; b=WM60AJSwKwVTdVG/IEl4AHrQvXL3RK4sRTAMlEbVYcRxPbKkIDYrQmsiYu+diDC/UnjHB4Q0zzBWeTt1kiLmmnvTIbGdWGSxObXt+OkGIREiiyGgMsd/KghT95SXh2mLAkACxoEIr2FdO3+8o76bCoTu0tyOm31IshHOtmEF+AUaar1jTbZiICXaA0f16URAt+BJ82ZRPNgTh8hJPPdAPL0U2D48WQoNa3GWNTSf5sMvqDFFC9rn8ubXEF6yAVbx+gVoMgGQgx1kU5hVgXwfvF0q1Y84TVXQgf2g2VvDoa8Q7fV+PqcSZP+fUZH2pfiuzTve6kefUsqQkn5RQUif0Q==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=juniper.net; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=juniper.net; dkim=pass header.d=juniper.net; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=juniper.net; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=nwZ66yX6hHhpwt/sY4IgpCq/M7QI9Gk/o94h6ymJk7s=; b=eRyQh528i5G/v+wv+tkKI/mLxTvToPI+unoTiwx8Syr94ie6Nj59/Gy+5EZ9tQdPfv0FYZeEr4uGiJJXmqETnoVFQn6POjqpWq3fOglE4sOkE2bEVHYh+fI4RjvtyM8W76lcpzT+KmrAbmZQhlwfJyt92sxtVXyn7R7imelATrY=
Received: from MN2PR05MB6109.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:208:c4::20) by BL0PR05MB4593.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:208:53::18) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.5227.16; Thu, 5 May 2022 01:26:25 +0000
Received: from MN2PR05MB6109.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::fc4c:13b7:a19d:5367]) by MN2PR05MB6109.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::fc4c:13b7:a19d:5367%7]) with mapi id 15.20.5227.016; Thu, 5 May 2022 01:26:25 +0000
From: John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net>
To: Sean Turner <sean@sn3rd.com>
CC: Lars Eggert <lars@eggert.org>, IETF WG Chairs <wgchairs@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: New document shepherd writeup
Thread-Topic: New document shepherd writeup
Thread-Index: AQHYXtU5sCqKdjeQQ06cfqIG3Askd60Nv4kAgAB7zQCAAHEUAIAABxcAgAAHbYCAAAmygIAAB9WAgAAPaoCAAJsSAIAACaop
Date: Thu, 05 May 2022 01:26:25 +0000
Message-ID: <DB194242-BD4D-4636-AB5C-6BFC72E33770@juniper.net>
References: <F4A44FCE-D31B-4FE8-9950-6C60CDD9DD36@eggert.org> <CAOW+2dsiHimBnUr1++Y+nq6r6oxA5jDa8sXM4g3k-vjXfDbPfQ@mail.gmail.com> <3EE82F27-F170-4E89-8491-B021C94E7B28@eggert.org> <69281967-83db-9ec3-26e1-67028a0cfa92@joelhalpern.com> <FAC35BA0-0955-4CCF-A278-D9BFF233C603@eggert.org> <E66933CF-1272-48D2-A8E7-BE1CE0859D3B@macmic.franken.de> <201782E3-9712-4685-94E0-FF59D49D4096@brianrosen.net> <FF00EC50-740B-43FB-9CD2-26CAA9C36514@sn3rd.com> <B0249E28-6DF1-4108-A6C5-B6316EFBA7EA@juniper.net> <E0D0D47A-286C-452C-9A60-04F9EB165439@sn3rd.com>
In-Reply-To: <E0D0D47A-286C-452C-9A60-04F9EB165439@sn3rd.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: a854a848-250f-4218-7df3-08da2e36459d
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BL0PR05MB4593:EE_
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <BL0PR05MB459304B8E07A4991CE6CB7FCAAC29@BL0PR05MB4593.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: S2eMAr619K2PDSz4+Iakdq8jtCAUSSy5jNVtlSasEJhTuj0DEeSa4u3bi7/fi9+StU+aPMaVcnpOGjdkmsHwQzMlpinvmES0PkWOUIK0gQR9SJ41PFCioyu3C1HZx4AOwzZJuD+Pg0zIL77UTuz3fKN8y7n/psoagfRzoRwgaUOm7bh1zGu+xUYp1m8MEwC3TEdMUmEGhxnbdyAyhd0lrH2EXcg7RIxCgONd3bbW+tUu+AgGEAXMROsRPiNPY8cm1X3fDX7Xosjrmyxm/r0+Z4NF03Yk6d0ZLHzU+ZUx+ngnzowZLS+PaMJlc9q7Y1E4IijrEIZsvOhcNn9ZPHLeutVLetuNurnUQLxTHqoScxI0kGmOHwFObozoLURBBKlIZdQzDPfqUGz2SQ+S0JHUGHRIH95TJoRxIczQYzy2704wSqVQ6W4gzPQax1tBhWaO0HpsG3f6NkMeyYHlcZs7nCUDuPGX0D5lpN29Kat/h8kmpkMgWq0X3uvsucHhMLcwvsw1j/K083xPdTCg1vGZaFLpGLOA5gHEGYJVs24wm/OhtPqG3F58Gybs5/A0wK6VreLctCDI5Mj1Roke2E64klYz8OANMMwYr5s3iQ1N1uLGRN/ccqFWB7+PkpoThND1L14eMBPtWkAfVFwznrxE2Cg1tqaTSYNkXus+jfuPGrEE6RtFPGV1QQqud1fI7juYLFAV3vIYcFkcz4MvW6G58n2a+gUtIyf9/r/AwUFl53+LOUXgjM9Fo1dUZt4qb96a6GIJScbWIJS8dts/gZhIKn0nKH2BAiqYhV8P7wK/bLQ=
x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:MN2PR05MB6109.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(13230001)(4636009)(366004)(3480700007)(508600001)(83380400001)(54906003)(5660300002)(4744005)(6486002)(36756003)(66446008)(64756008)(8936002)(66476007)(71200400001)(2906002)(6916009)(316002)(8676002)(4326008)(66556008)(76116006)(66946007)(91956017)(33656002)(26005)(186003)(2616005)(6512007)(53546011)(6506007)(38100700002)(38070700005)(86362001)(122000001)(45980500001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102;
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: 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
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: MN2PR05MB6109.namprd05.prod.outlook.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: a854a848-250f-4218-7df3-08da2e36459d
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 05 May 2022 01:26:25.6938 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 1sPBjHVHGuhbgAxdk2qp+S040iuSpV9T0hXk9wZe48wwYh4Ky0vx+17cUdPGHIXt
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BL0PR05MB4593
X-Proofpoint-GUID: oga6hA3P14BsxXV8cyr0NW9Xe8JhPyOO
X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: oga6hA3P14BsxXV8cyr0NW9Xe8JhPyOO
X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.205,Aquarius:18.0.858,Hydra:6.0.486,FMLib:17.11.64.514 definitions=2022-05-04_06,2022-05-04_02,2022-02-23_01
X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 mlxlogscore=523 phishscore=0 suspectscore=0 priorityscore=1501 impostorscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 spamscore=0 malwarescore=0 clxscore=1015 adultscore=0 mlxscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2202240000 definitions=main-2205050008
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/wgchairs/TJv9Tf_IUEeG224vsQzyzUmFhI8>
X-BeenThere: wgchairs@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34
Precedence: list
List-Id: Working Group Chairs <wgchairs.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/wgchairs>, <mailto:wgchairs-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/wgchairs/>
List-Post: <mailto:wgchairs@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:wgchairs-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/wgchairs>, <mailto:wgchairs-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 May 2022 01:26:45 -0000

> On May 4, 2022, at 8:52 PM, Sean Turner <sean@sn3rd.com> wrote:
> Apologies if my message came off as snotty or railing against the IESG

It didn’t, to me anyway, and in turn I apologize if my note left that impression. There just seemed to be a gathering tide of — quite typically for our community — getting all technical about the possible implications of the text if closely parsed in the most extreme light. I wanted to head that off by being clear that no, we were not playing nine-dimensional chess, we just didn’t choose our words carefully enough. I happened to reply to your note when doing that. Sorry if you felt singled out! I should have removed individuals from the to:, my bad. 

—John