Re: [arch-d] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-iab-for-the-users-01.txt

Guntur Wiseno Putra <> Sun, 02 February 2020 13:55 UTC

Return-Path: <>
Received: from localhost (localhost []) by (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00962120131 for <>; Sun, 2 Feb 2020 05:55:01 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.997
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key)
Received: from ([]) by localhost ( []) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id acIQhtbYbPge for <>; Sun, 2 Feb 2020 05:54:58 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ( [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::334]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8C26112010D for <>; Sun, 2 Feb 2020 05:54:58 -0800 (PST)
Received: by with SMTP id r27so11101071otc.8 for <>; Sun, 02 Feb 2020 05:54:58 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=VWVnRz32iyHDTkHUpZH3HvTC1j1IRoZ9t58uZzRmeC0=; b=WcFqoovLH0bNvw9z2tKbohpBixpvsZ1FFZ7OmT/dzFeRr4BFaHNq/mKT0m05H8Od3p TRKggjaW2Je3/TZZQcOq8FzxcsgMPbHF1Vfsol4bCzn5+NURit7OqH9b4raXlzNwdNAI g9Rj8LHejDX6MLmZLbqTqQi9GO0+Zp5kUVH0KU6oD8fSebhr0ME2PIRZ/4BkCDhdQkgq dm7/4pdMQFNmacPVG/dlUV8FHqUkyVPcsUajyvxeq/5h6li3+g1oR9wGhLBsneS1IBlg 1ndZDLEVhHdroMGn2BVWmk1lurTAqzbSQKqrAFZB9NYVZFe7pQDj+64SNPmO09TM9SdZ nH4Q==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=VWVnRz32iyHDTkHUpZH3HvTC1j1IRoZ9t58uZzRmeC0=; b=BYvvPgNi5mVYdUqY8sDy+c8npsvw0NRKoxzhh52FmRdgKKK/Gq4ZRk1ZBzLe8lY6kK QBu+zh1jiffxSp2rgSrHQPHbigzPYdnTDGzKsVQerLtmkPb9xXdFMvYhvdB9TBgpBayn urfIGZ8th5I/9g1qaoVcbKng+0aG6cXqq2MHjzMSOytadwGdFPhbdkXbN6mnY6XJANzY XPQvBgHRPOn8EMGWfSFKl169X9Cuz6Iahh5xk9Na0TsvzejBWAprYwpfNWboqx/czzRt wsTpLbueIZx9teJDyINXc3o6rpxCg8d+nTNITRNBUOIYlpRvMYFpNC8Ho9p5JBKpdg/C U4fw==
X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAW5MP5zSV3f6PXSx7APyTSTvnlPAi7IwkSpvbMAymZc4l4Gjfvk HvYIPkLSarUEYf8loKDjGap84NiPjGd9HPB7Mcf0Wg==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqy9xj0NXt24IMD5vq338929sDVCOnHaniV3OAXUxR04iXE5VKs6wY36T4Pamc4KUYBxo7Kc4DS342Zdn/pIf9Y=
X-Received: by 2002:a9d:170a:: with SMTP id i10mr14294996ota.284.1580651697844; Sun, 02 Feb 2020 05:54:57 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 2002:a05:6830:1155:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Sun, 2 Feb 2020 05:54:57 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <>
References: <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <>
From: Guntur Wiseno Putra <>
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2020 20:54:57 +0700
Message-ID: <>
To: S Moonesamy <>
Cc: "" <>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f6b59d059d982639"
Archived-At: <>
Subject: Re: [arch-d] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-iab-for-the-users-01.txt
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues <>
List-Unsubscribe: <>, <>
List-Archive: <>
List-Post: <>
List-Help: <>
List-Subscribe: <>, <>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2020 13:55:01 -0000

Dear S. Moonesamy &

May we say about "building trust for legitimacy to represent", "legitimacy
to represent for trust"...? --as one is legitimated when another or others
trust(s) to that one (her/him)...?

Such basic understandings below may help to arrive at a notions of "trust"
in the Internet which is about networks of computers, of communications, of
languages (1).

Networks of Interests (of meanings and values): Trusts and Distrusts...

- when the interests are understood/accepted by either/all parties involved
there are (networks of) trusts.

- when the interests are not understood/accepted by either/all parties
involved there are (networks of) distrusts.

Should we note that there are in-between areas made possible by those
"either" in those points above, which is about as non-total trust well as
non-total distrust --it is supposedly about "degrees" of "little",
"enough", "much"...

In relation to "individuals in a network society", especially to "the
Internet users as individuals in a network society"--as mentioned in the
previous message--, the problem of "legitimacy for representativity"  is
about how building trust for legitimacy to represent (2). Thus we may say
about "networked representativity".

(1)  so it is about identifying critical points of security: those threats
and trusts --actual and potential. It is related with my previous message
at this architecture-discuss list "Possible new IAB program on Internet
trust model evolution"

(2) J. F. Lyotard in "The Postmodern Conditions: a Report on Knoweledge"
section "Elementary Nature of Social Tie: Postmodern Perspective mentioned
about "the self" as one "exists in a fabric of relations which is now
getting more complex and mobile" as it "is always be placed  on nodal
points in (a) certain circuit of communication".

Guntur Wiseno Putra

Pada Minggu, 02 Februari 2020, S Moonesamy <> menulis:

> Dear Guntur,
> At 10:50 PM 01-02-2020, Guntur Wiseno Putra wrote:
>> Representativity of the Internet Users as Individuals, Organization and
>> civil society is about Legitimacy...?
> Yes.
> The Internet and Individuals as users in a network society...:  may it not
>> help to arrive at such an understanding of representativity and
>> legitimacy...?
> The short answer is no.
> Regards,
> S. Moonesamy