Re: [arch-d] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-iab-for-the-users-01.txt
Guntur Wiseno Putra <gsenopu@gmail.com> Mon, 03 February 2020 02:18 UTC
Return-Path: <gsenopu@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16ABD120817 for <architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 2 Feb 2020 18:18:38 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.998
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 63CxEhcedrQx for <architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 2 Feb 2020 18:18:36 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-ot1-x330.google.com (mail-ot1-x330.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::330]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2990C12002F for <architecture-discuss@ietf.org>; Sun, 2 Feb 2020 18:18:36 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-ot1-x330.google.com with SMTP id a15so12197176otf.1 for <architecture-discuss@ietf.org>; Sun, 02 Feb 2020 18:18:36 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=5+HJmbpIff8OACkXkx7cbv11ogGg6fqDUXYhr4Eh7RE=; b=dMplMcQrF14jpCJw8mRuP+dgpo7pyG/Rxw9NaDq9eOhTFy8xi2Kc7lfx3Sa2tsDhDR SWzbnNUll8nkxxKYCSxzJQ7S+K5ojAe6/zpSa2mnJknECTIEpdXeoNTiemWw5ku/VXWq 4HtsT7FP9nFYUGJhZpoTFgfb/HEhW7ch0QM95G8oLsEFWoovjcP9XdgdhYDahuQfO/+K xuvvz2Q9Qwak5s5EhtRw5/9JjH9gPJ7OiyucN5up8lO8dOXuqOTzN0Tw5rbOj0BbnKh7 lJjxwYeR9mIXj1v3NUCYgOQjd6X1SDRT/cDwDir6oimHBcrpUI2S2NB/pr6qF4YDp1sR GZxQ==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=5+HJmbpIff8OACkXkx7cbv11ogGg6fqDUXYhr4Eh7RE=; b=Hwo2SKyf8xHemDYlboAH+lTfR+LFKHoIqI2Kdqz8A4+RpmmSVtBZxHi28LUWZB5Ggp TVphvHALaiYPwIl0Piht/BPW3BE41JvaE9g0pu16pf+stKY2BguuGKj/f9R/aU17smfW HpV5vaSp6W2wValnGKAXflQ0gEsENjCgFTogPriWuJxCDd1azII2ICk+tt5gfZpjiBWH Wg8xD/ef/31bP11+O+7yMR8TUukv/sHjgy0yN18opXYNYaDBkSN/i/i5GeW8wEbBg4hl 6IrSNVsCUfs4OVRrQRx8hJE96zazsP1jhD4maRsLdJ0QQM7F8QDGPDtQemL6okbJzZNp qErQ==
X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWkr1e21iWIdDpII+zeVRxMagit26kqJeBaojEtx7wbnmn5Znso PHfTBrtEDf+D8sZjsNK4s24raPLybR+TcCdpJJlTDw==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyKF97WqlM1uRqe0yFd1p0xVzNkZDNfXEH6aZwb5+pqI03LvDLhh77m4litodW1U8DtzFkjbB3Qjpr8IzGYpLg=
X-Received: by 2002:a9d:65da:: with SMTP id z26mr16183959oth.197.1580696315318; Sun, 02 Feb 2020 18:18:35 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 2002:a05:6830:1155:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Sun, 2 Feb 2020 18:18:34 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20200202114823.0801adc8@elandnews.com>
References: <157403781873.6404.6154827441040413193.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <01246A3C-31EC-4B7B-841D-F799EEFADCB8@mnot.net> <227662299.12784.1575991106819@appsuite-gw2.open-xchange.com> <C74D5288-709B-46E3-B9F9-4FDE0234C451@fugue.com> <429195684.13066.1575996064551@appsuite-gw2.open-xchange.com> <0C729385-1361-460C-9C16-E1BE1680A3E6@fugue.com> <1100636076.15285.1576072588087@appsuite-gw2.open-xchange.com> <4A034991-E5C8-4797-B6BF-9484BB2FA614@fugue.com> <31473650-0872-4EFE-A99C-E3DD4CDBC700@cisco.com> <alpine.LRH.2.21.1912130913480.8529@bofh.nohats.ca> <326C92A0-5F29-411D-99DE-7C785CF73EE7@cisco.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20191214065306.11c9aa98@elandnews.com> <61975615-0DB9-4683-84B5-A4BB5441C467@mnot.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20200123013903.0be41930@elandnews.com> <22E03B8F-8026-43EE-BDC6-96130DBD1877@mnot.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20200124145657.13907ec8@elandnews.com> <DDD62FE8-4AD5-4020-91EB-57B70E187BC9@mnot.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20200201143228.0bf6db10@elandnews.com> <CAKi_AEscp1cGPpX=_bwcPCWaywEqc=CJhwbc77q=uPRyiTvYNQ@mail.gmail.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200202000748.0be03018@elandnews.com> <CAKi_AEtXhftt_i5idazwp5oT3OFVkWN3j=4ap0gAETzb_1dQWw@mail.gmail.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200202114823.0801adc8@elandnews.com>
From: Guntur Wiseno Putra <gsenopu@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2020 09:18:34 +0700
Message-ID: <CAKi_AEtASnJw=PWfFNNM7qnRwzGczt8Y2eRN=0-kducav44=uw@mail.gmail.com>
To: S Moonesamy <sm+ietf@elandsys.com>
Cc: "architecture-discuss@ietf.org" <architecture-discuss@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000005f538c059da28a44"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/architecture-discuss/1J5GnWQ9NGwcy8wrVLDNVB540ho>
Subject: Re: [arch-d] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-iab-for-the-users-01.txt
X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues <architecture-discuss.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/architecture-discuss>, <mailto:architecture-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/architecture-discuss/>
List-Post: <mailto:architecture-discuss@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:architecture-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss>, <mailto:architecture-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2020 02:18:38 -0000
Dear S. Moonesamy & architecture-discuss, S.M: I would not say that. It can be a balancing act between various interests and/or imperatives. GWP: Wheels need to stand to walk...: it is a matter of "balance"... That is about a wheel system. But, the performance of system at times needs to destroy its (/system's) entropy (1), its balance which is about a balance at higher levels of encompassing bigger/broader interests/imperatives (: It is not only about either me or you but people surrounding also...): which is about a new balance. Does it not mean such an egoism related with security, that subjects (be it as human well as non-human) struggle for its self-security. Thus, there are problems of ethics and aesthetics here, as we are thinking as men: about what is just and about what is beautiful. Note: (1) J. F. Lyotard said about system performance and entropy/balance in the same paragraph with his explanation about "the self" I mentioned in the previous message. * to make additions in the last paragraph of my previous message: In relation to "individuals in a network society", especially to "the Internet users as individuals in a network society"--as mentioned in the previous message--, the problem of "legitimacy for representativity" is about how building trust for legitimacy to represent interests(2). "Who the Internet users trust (their interest, meanings and values) to..."? "Why and how do they trust them to..."? Those are among others questions arisen in, what we may name, "networked representativity". Regard, Guntur Wiseno Putra Pada Senin, 03 Februari 2020, S Moonesamy <sm+ietf@elandsys.com> menulis: > Dear Guntur, > At 05:54 AM 02-02-2020, Guntur Wiseno Putra wrote: > >> May we say about "building trust for legitimacy to represent", >> "legitimacy to represent for trust"...? --as one is legitimated when >> another or others trust(s) to that one (her/him)...? >> > > I would not say that. It can be a balancing act between various interests > and/or imperatives. > > Regards, > S. Moonesamy >
- [arch-d] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-… Mark Nottingham
- Re: [arch-d] [hrpc] New Version Notification for … Eliot Lear
- [arch-d] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-… Guntur Wiseno Putra
- Re: [arch-d] [hrpc] New Version Notification for … Paul Wouters
- Re: [arch-d] [hrpc] New Version Notification for … Eliot Lear
- Re: [arch-d] New Version Notification for draft-i… S Moonesamy
- Re: [arch-d] Fwd: New Version Notification for dr… Guntur Wiseno Putra
- Re: [arch-d] Fwd: New Version Notification for dr… Guntur Wiseno Putra
- Re: [arch-d] Fwd: New Version Notification for dr… Guntur Wiseno Putra
- Re: [arch-d] Fwd: New Version Notification for dr… S Moonesamy
- Re: [arch-d] Fwd: New Version Notification for dr… Guntur Wiseno Putra
- [arch-d] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-… Guntur Wiseno Putra
- [arch-d] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-… Guntur Wiseno Putra
- [arch-d] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-… Guntur Wiseno Putra
- Re: [arch-d] New Version Notification for draft-i… Mark Nottingham
- [arch-d] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-… Guntur Wiseno Putra
- Re: [arch-d] New Version Notification for draft-i… S Moonesamy
- Re: [arch-d] New Version Notification for draft-i… Mark Nottingham
- Re: [arch-d] New Version Notification for draft-i… Eliot Lear
- Re: [arch-d] New Version Notification for draft-i… Mark Nottingham
- Re: [arch-d] New Version Notification for draft-i… S Moonesamy
- Re: [arch-d] New Version Notification for draft-i… Vittorio Bertola
- Re: [arch-d] New Version Notification for draft-i… Mark Nottingham
- Re: [arch-d] New Version Notification for draft-i… S Moonesamy
- [arch-d] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-… Guntur Wiseno Putra
- Re: [arch-d] Fwd: New Version Notification for dr… S Moonesamy
- Re: [arch-d] Fwd: New Version Notification for dr… Guntur Wiseno Putra
- Re: [arch-d] Fwd: New Version Notification for dr… S Moonesamy
- Re: [arch-d] Fwd: New Version Notification for dr… Guntur Wiseno Putra