Re: [Autoconf] WC consensus call for RFC5889 modifications (Fwd: Forgotone [Was: RFC 5889)

Henning Rogge <henning.rogge@fkie.fraunhofer.de> Thu, 05 August 2010 08:38 UTC

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From: Henning Rogge <henning.rogge@fkie.fraunhofer.de>
To: "Charles E. Perkins" <charles.perkins@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 10:38:57 +0200
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Subject: Re: [Autoconf] WC consensus call for RFC5889 modifications (Fwd: Forgotone [Was: RFC 5889)
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On Wed August 4 2010 15:07:14 Charles E. Perkins wrote:
> Hello Henning,
> 
> On 8/3/2010 10:55 PM, Henning Rogge wrote:
> > If you run a part of the routing protocol to connect the "host" to the
> > MANET, it's a router in my oppinion (Ripple would call it a leaf node
> > for example).
> 
> What if your host gets an address by running
> "autoconf.exe", which is not a routing program?
Does your host set up a route towards the next router and maintains it if the 
topology data from the router changes ? If yes I would say it's a primitive 
router too. If no, it's not.

> > If the node just use DHCP or similar protocols to get it's address
> > without being modified to work with the MANET, it's no router (and don't
> > need the autoconf address model).
> 
> What if the host does not?  Or, do you mean to say
> that this discussion is a way to legislate that all
> hosts must use DHCP?
I don't think I ever said this. I just presented an example that the address 
model is not necessary for running a node in a MANET that use the autoconf 
address model.

Yes, you CAN use it... but you don't need to.

> > The autoconf model is NOT the only way for a host to get an address for
> > connection to a MANET.
> 
> The autoconf model for getting addresses doesn't exist.
> I sure hope it isn't the only way to get an address.
> 
> But suppose at some point there is an autoconf.exe.
> It should be a way for a host to get an address.
> Its connection to the MANET would, presumably allow
> it to use this address.  Or, do you mean to say that
> "address allocation" == "connection"?
I don't see any reason why an autoconfiguration protocol developed by this 
group would only run on interfaces of routers.

> > If you have a router with a policy that limits the routers functionality
> > (in terms of the routing protocol), you could just write a
> > compact/optimized version of the needed software part for it.
> 
> main()
> {
> 	system ("get_address");
> 	if (routing) fail();   /* My compact routing code */
> }
> 
> Am I a router?
I don't see any routing code of a routing protocol. But I don't see your 
problem too.

> >>> It should be done on the routers (but MANETs can and have been run
> >>> with different address models), and it could be used for hosts closely
> >>> attached to a MANET, but it's not necessary to do so.
> >> 
> >> What is "it"?
> > 
> > The autoconf address model should be used on routers (but you could use a
> > different one) and it (the address model) could be used on hosts attached
> > to a MANET, but it's not necessary to use the autoconf address model on
> > hosts.
> 
> It's necessary for hosts to adhere to the
> considerations detailed in the address model
> document.  I'm not sure if this is the same
> as "using" it.
It might be necessary, depending on what software the host is running.

> >>> But in my opinion it is still better it's still better to restrict the
> >>> title as suggested in the WG meeting consensus that to make it too
> >>> generic.
> >> 
> >> I can't imagine any non-political reason whatsoever for this.
> > 
> > If we do otherwise we could have the same problems. People would say "you
> > demand that any computer attached to your MANET use the autoconf address
> > model. But we have to use DHCP, so your address model is wrong."
> 
> This is a political argument not based on the needs
> of the addressability, connectivity, or goals of
> making an ad hoc network.  Insofar as you may be
> nonetheless correct, I begin to believe that I have
> zero insight into the technical goals of the discussion.
> 
> > (I don't say they are right, but we will get people with strange comments
> > on the address model with both titles)
> 
> Please tell me if my comments are "strange".
I think the problem you stated is that people can say "the title says it's 
only for routers, so it is not enough for my usecase and I need something 
different".

If we not change the title we might get "the title says it's for all nodes, 
but I cannot force my users to install a special interface configuration on 
their smartphones, so I need something different."

There are nodes in MANET that are a grey area between host and router. Because 
of this we cannot make a clear statement on what nodes the autoconf address 
model should be used.

Most of the WG seems to think it's better to restrict the scope a little bit 
more and let people use it for other things than the defined scope if they 
think it's right (at least that's how I understand the consensus of the 
group).

Henning Rogge
-- 
Diplom-Informatiker Henning Rogge , Fraunhofer-Institut für
Kommunikation, Informationsverarbeitung und Ergonomie FKIE
Kommunikationssysteme (KOM)
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