Re: [gaia] Fwd: RE: Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alternative-network-deployments

"Jose Saldana" <jsaldana@unizar.es> Mon, 25 April 2016 15:14 UTC

Return-Path: <jsaldana@unizar.es>
X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54A4A12D190 for <gaia@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 25 Apr 2016 08:14:40 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -5.197
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.197 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.996, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tAmgHTpT8WjH for <gaia@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 25 Apr 2016 08:14:38 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from isuela.unizar.es (isuela.unizar.es [155.210.1.53]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F34BD12D1B0 for <gaia@irtf.org>; Mon, 25 Apr 2016 08:14:37 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from usuarioPC (gtc1pc12.cps.unizar.es [155.210.158.17]) (authenticated bits=0) by isuela.unizar.es (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id u3PFETac020362; Mon, 25 Apr 2016 17:14:29 +0200
From: "Jose Saldana" <jsaldana@unizar.es>
To: "'Mitar'" <mmitar@gmail.com>, <future@systemli.org>
References: <ee014af6a8b3e085b427caac65547999@systemli.org> <5d76a50d6f49977440e927a742aa27e5@unizar.es> <705aac1463952c2a0630f63ec198a894@systemli.org> <006b01d19554$eff69080$cfe3b180$@unizar.es> <695d7f8c0af83663c60adda51613382d@systemli.org> <CAKLmikMPQkB4TBdhHHR_wSwd29DtxKjuLjG3qGV-VgqSzep8YA@mail.gmail.com> <2eede7e18d6a48d35c62a10b1fe9bc44@systemli.org> <CAKLmikP8J_3sw-qG_UwkGat4cMx9v3KoTU_Ggkpw85kpX-=7WQ@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAKLmikP8J_3sw-qG_UwkGat4cMx9v3KoTU_Ggkpw85kpX-=7WQ@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 17:14:47 +0200
Message-ID: <002401d19f05$34d12670$9e737350$@unizar.es>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 15.0
Thread-Index: AQFrwzqnNnNE73ZlX9NCykAuEbU7pwLmf0GBAcCpJx4DDdmUWgHo5tieAtECSL8CLxhTqwD3qNQRn+nV6cA=
Content-Language: es
X-Mail-Scanned: Criba 2.0 + Clamd & Bogofilter
Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/gaia/m5oBG6hsNhnBvYuTw6csxfrsbJs>
Cc: 'gaia' <gaia@irtf.org>
Subject: Re: [gaia] Fwd: RE: Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alternative-network-deployments
X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17
Precedence: list
List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All <gaia.irtf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.irtf.org/mailman/options/gaia>, <mailto:gaia-request@irtf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/gaia/>
List-Post: <mailto:gaia@irtf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:gaia-request@irtf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia>, <mailto:gaia-request@irtf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 15:14:40 -0000

Hi, Mitar,

> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: gaia [mailto:gaia-bounces@irtf.org] En nombre de Mitar
> Enviado el: domingo, 17 de abril de 2016 8:20
> Para: future@systemli.org
> CC: gaia <gaia@irtf.org>
> Asunto: Re: [gaia] Fwd: RE: Review required:
draft-irtf-gaia-alternative-network-
> deployments
> 
> Hi!
> 
> On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 6:20 AM,  <future@systemli.org> wrote:
> >> Those are mostly overlay networks
> >
> > If this answers your question:
> > GNUnet, Maidsafe, Net2o can all set on UDP:
> >
> > http://www.grothoff.org/christian/mapping2014.pdf, page 34
> > https://github.com/maidsafe/MaidSafe-Transport
> > http://fossil.net2o.de/net2o/doc/trunk/wiki/topology.md
> >
> > In addition GNUnet can set on WLAN and Bluetooth.
> > So what is missing for the others is just the right module beneath.
> > It is a question of time that they get it and that at least one of
> > these newcomers constitute community wireless networks, whereas GNUnet
> > is closest, and will again, afaik participate at the Battlemesh this
year.
> 
> OK, let me rephrase my question: there is no currently existing direct
non-testped
> deployment on dedicated infrastructure for these protocols (so that there
would be
> for example routers running those protocols)?
> Any real network one can use are currently still overlay networks?
> 
> So the question is: while this is still in process, there is still no
party which would
> decide to use it "in production", directly, no?
> 
> What is this document's editorial policy on including promising to-be
technologies
> and approaches? Should we maybe have a section to speculate and provide
some
> links (we could also mention DTN there)?

Currently the draft only covers tested and deployed technologies.

I don't think we should speculate about the future, just build a
classification of what already exists (it is my opinion).

> 
> > Actually they all do, as long as you don't mean layer 0 - hardware.
> > But that might come along when the time has come.
> 
> I meant hardware, yes.
> 
> >> Some other similar projects (to my knowledge):
> >>
> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cjdns
> >
> > Cjdns provides end-2-end-encryption and there are communities using it.
> > As long as not configured (using Tor) it provides no protection of
metadata.
> >
> >> https://ipfs.io/
> >
> > Provides no end-to-end-encryption nor metadata-protection.
> > Maybe useful on top of an Internet that delivers the above requirements.
> 
> Yes, it is interesting how different projects are picking different
trade-offs. It will be
> really interesting to see which ones will take off.
> 
> 
> Mitar
> 
> --
> http://mitar.tnode.com/
> https://twitter.com/mitar_m
> 
> _______________________________________________
> gaia mailing list
> gaia@irtf.org
> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia

Best regards,

Jose