Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for draft-ecahc-moderation-00.txt
Rob Sayre <sayrer@gmail.com> Tue, 18 July 2023 23:06 UTC
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From: Rob Sayre <sayrer@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2023 16:06:39 -0700
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Subject: Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for draft-ecahc-moderation-00.txt
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Hi, Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie> wrote: > The draft itself notes that we don't have agreement as to > what may be disruptive, so creating a fake "agreement" (the > de-facto processes followed by the putative small team) will > likely lead to more disruption than we face now. Agree, it is contradictory. Maybe even hand-waving. [0] > I would also envisage this creating a situation where the > most sensitised IETF participants (for any given topic) will > feel obliged to "inform" on others to the moderation team > which is not a good situation to set up for many reasons. I also noticed this issue, but I thought I might be the only one. The terminology is really bad, and I think the draft would be better if it was deleted and not replaced. It unintentionally references Unofficial Collaborators [1], or McCarthyism in the US [2]. It's also bad management, in that it implies that complaining is to be rewarded. That might seem like a careful thing to do at first. But, excepting absolutely terrible behavior, you are diverting effort from technical work to complaints. > I think it's good to discuss this problem but strongly oppose > what I understand to be the proposed solution. Agree. It's well-meaning, but clearly an effort made by people that haven't done any work in moderation or social networks. For example, there is an entire earnest thread on this topic where everyone is seemingly unaware of the "mods are asleep" meme [3]. That one is used as a joke now, but has abhorrent origins. It is at least 13 years old. There are people that specialize in this problem space. I'd recommend going that route, rather than trying to build your own. thanks, Rob [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand-waving [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unofficial_collaborator [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism [3] https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/mods-are-asleep
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Salz, Rich
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… John Levine
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Mark Nottingham
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Jari Arkko
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Eric Rescorla
- [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for draft-… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… John R Levine
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Mark Nottingham
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Paul Wouters
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… John R Levine
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Vittorio Bertola
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Mark Nottingham
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Rob Sayre
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Rob Sayre
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Salz, Rich
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Jari Arkko
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Salz, Rich
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Rob Sayre
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Alissa Cooper
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Rob Sayre
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Lloyd W
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Lloyd W
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Rob Sayre
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Lloyd W
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Lars Eggert
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Lars Eggert
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Lars Eggert
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Salz, Rich
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Rob Sayre
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… John Levine