[homenet] use of MPvD in homenet
Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> Sun, 13 August 2017 00:09 UTC
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From: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
To: HOMENET <homenet@ietf.org>
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Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2017 20:09:25 -0400
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Subject: [homenet] use of MPvD in homenet
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{new subject line, nuked References} Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com> wrote: > The problem with this is that it is quite brittle—it depends on everything > working right. The routing has to be set up right. The operator has to set > the routing up right. The other operator has to not deliberately or > accidentally set the routing up wrong. The home network has to successfully > get the right routing information and use it correctly. This seems a bit like FUD: the Internet depends upon all sorts of "brittle" things like "not deliberately or accidentially" setting up the routing wrong. I do agree that a malicious operator could pretend to zero-rate things and then make it actually impossible to ever get that service. But: MPvD seems to depend upon the same kind of brittle things!!! > It might be worth actually writing down why you think that's so. It's far > from obvious to me that it is, but I am not as familiar as you are with > Shim6. Unfortunately as far as I know nobody ever presented anything about > Shim6 in MIF; if in fact what you are saying is true, a lot of time and > effort could have been saved if that had happened. MIF tried to solve all sorts of IPv4-induced problems that marketing people thought that they had. Many were not well defined in my opinion, or in my opinion were not even good ideas. Tim points out that SHIM6 was undeployable as described because of extension headers; but I was never convinced that was what killed it, but okay. (I believe that was the year I dealt with family illnesses) Maybe in the end, we have LISP as a response? SHIM6 tries to deal with multi-homing by proposing incrementally deployable changes to hosts. Host (pairs) that have it, benefit without infrastructure in between being upgraded. A host that had SHIM6, and had some HNCP and/or minimal babel listening, would be able to intelligently do SHIM6 better. I think that SHIM6 would also provide a channel by which a service provider who had differential rates for different access channels to say such a thing through the SHIM6 layer. (That would be an extension) MPvD tries to do the same thing: avoid making any changes to the infrastructure outside of the "device" (in the telco's case, a smartphone that they have an agreement with the manufacturer to modify, that they lock and "sell"). HOMENET is chartered to fix the infrastructure *in the home* such that unmodified hosts can reasonably get basic services without changes. MPvD only works when the end host has multiple interfaces that it can actually provision from, *or* if we have virtual provisioning domains on the same link! i.e. infrastructure! Which we do have in HOMENET. At which point MPvD requires that the infrastructure and the host cooperate to communicate the multiple domains to the end host via the infrastructure. That's where all the "brittle" things you describe show up!!! MPvD requires the walled-garden ISPs to do the same configuration. -- Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =-
- [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet-nam… STARK, BARBARA H
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Markus Stenberg
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Michael Richardson
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Juliusz Chroboczek
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Ray Bellis
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Juliusz Chroboczek
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Juliusz Chroboczek
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Ray Bellis
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Juliusz Chroboczek
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… STARK, BARBARA H
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Juliusz Chroboczek
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Michael Richardson
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Tim Chown
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Michael Richardson
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Ted Lemon
- [homenet] use of MPvD in homenet Michael Richardson
- Re: [homenet] use of MPvD in homenet Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Juliusz Chroboczek
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Juliusz Chroboczek
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Ralf Weber
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
- [homenet] tuscles and conflicting goals / trust w… Michael Richardson
- Re: [homenet] tuscles and conflicting goals / tru… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [homenet] tuscles and conflicting goals / tru… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Juliusz Chroboczek
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] tuscles and conflicting goals / tru… Michael Richardson
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Michael Richardson
- Re: [homenet] tuscles and conflicting goals / tru… STARK, BARBARA H
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Gert Doering
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Juliusz Chroboczek
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] tuscles and conflicting goals / tru… Michael Richardson
- Re: [homenet] Status of draft-tldm-simple-homenet… Juliusz Chroboczek