Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRATION FORMs
John Cowan <cowan@ccil.org> Tue, 26 August 2008 07:06 UTC
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Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 03:06:58 -0400
To: Frank Ellermann <hmdmhdfmhdjmzdtjmzdtzktdkztdjz@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRATION FORMs
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References: <mailman.4490.1219711681.6324.ietf-languages@alvestrand.no> <483C175B50F74005A486EF9D1983FEDA@DGBP7M81> <g908mf$ru0$1@ger.gmane.org>
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From: John Cowan <cowan@ccil.org>
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Frank Ellermann scripsit: > | Chinese is the same in its written form for > | Cantonese and Mandarin > > Is that correct ? This does not simply mean "same > script", John's explanation here some weeks ago was > clearer. In short: Classical Chinese can be *pronounced* in any Sinitic language, but the result is not intelligible without the written text, as it is excessively ambiguous. Written Modern Standard Mandarin is mostly a direct representation of spoken Modern Standard Mandarin, except for borrowings from Classical Chinese (the more elevated the text, the more such borrowings exist). Written Modern Standard Mandarin can also be read in another Sinitic language, but the result is about like reading French text word for word in Spanish by substituting the Spanish cognates of the French words. Core meaning is damaged, and nuance goes by the board. There are improvised representations of Cantonese and to a lesser degree the other non-Mandarin languages using both standard and non-standard ideographs. Reading these in Mandarin is possible, but difficult, and comes to a halt when a non-standard ideograph appears, or a standard ideograph used in a non-standard way (for example, purely to represent a sound rather than a morpheme). -- John Cowan cowan@ccil.org http://ccil.org/~cowan [R]eversing the apostolic precept to be all things to all men, I usually [before Darwin] defended the tenability of the received doctrines, when I had to do with the [evolution]ists; and stood up for the possibility of [evolution] among the orthodox --thereby, no doubt, increasing an already current, but quite undeserved, reputation for needless combativeness. --T. H. Huxley
- wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRATION … Mark Davis
- RE: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Broome, Karen
- RE: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Broome, Karen
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… John Cowan
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… John Cowan
- RE: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Broome, Karen
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Mark Davis
- RE: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Broome, Karen
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Doug Ewell
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Frank Ellermann
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… John Cowan
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Frank Ellermann
- Fwd: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRA… Michael Everson
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Michael Everson
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Mark Davis
- RE: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Phillips, Addison
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… John Cowan
- 4646bis era (was: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SU… Frank Ellermann
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Frank Ellermann
- Re: 4646bis era (was: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAG… John Cowan
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Doug Ewell
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Randy Presuhn
- Re: 4646bis era Frank Ellermann
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Andrew Cunningham
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… John Cowan
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Frank Ellermann
- Re: 4646bis era Randy Presuhn
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Andrew Cunningham
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… John Cowan
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Randy Presuhn
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Randy Presuhn
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Michael Everson
- Re: 4646bis era Michael Everson
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Gerard Meijssen
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Doug Ewell
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Michael Everson
- RE: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Broome, Karen
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Randy Presuhn
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Mark Davis
- Re: 4646bis era Frank Ellermann
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Andrew Cunningham
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Andrew Cunningham
- RE: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Broome, Karen
- RE: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Peter Constable
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… John Cowan
- RE: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Peter Constable
- Fwd: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRA… Michael Everson
- RE: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Peter Constable
- Pinyin Michael Everson
- Tongyong Pinyin bites the dust (was: Pinyin) John Cowan
- Re: Tongyong Pinyin bites the dust (was: Pinyin) Doug Ewell
- Re: Tongyong Pinyin bites the dust (was: Pinyin) John Cowan
- Re: Tongyong Pinyin bites the dust (was: Pinyin) Randy Presuhn
- Re: Pinyin: the prefix Michael Everson
- Re: Pinyin Randy Presuhn
- RE: Pinyin Tracey, Niall
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Michael Everson
- Pinyin Michael Everson
- Re: Pinyin Michael Everson
- Re: Pinyin Randy Presuhn
- Re: Pinyin John Cowan
- Re: Pinyin Randy Presuhn
- Re: Pinyin David Starner
- RE: Pinyin Phillips, Addison
- RE: Pinyin Phillips, Addison
- Re: Pinyin John Cowan
- Re: Pinyin John Cowan
- Re: Pinyin David Starner
- RE: Pinyin Phillips, Addison
- Re: Pinyin Randy Presuhn
- Re: Pinyin David Starner
- RE: Pinyin Phillips, Addison
- Re: Pinyin Randy Presuhn
- RE: Pinyin Peter Constable
- Re: Pinyin Doug Ewell
- Re: Pinyin Doug Ewell
- Re: Pinyin Randy Presuhn
- Re: Pinyin John Cowan
- Re: Pinyin Randy Presuhn
- Re: Pinyin John Cowan
- RE: Pinyin Lang Gérard
- Re: Pinyin Michael Everson
- Re: Pinyin Michael Everson
- Re: Pinyin Michael Everson
- RE: Pinyin Tracey, Niall
- OT: digital identifiers (Was: Pinyin Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: Pinyin: the prefix John Cowan
- Re: Pinyin John Cowan
- RE: Pinyin: the prefix Phillips, Addison
- Re: Pinyin: the prefix John Cowan
- RE: Pinyin Peter Constable
- RE: Pinyin: the prefix Peter Constable
- RE: Pinyin Peter Constable
- Re: Pinyin John Cowan
- RE: Pinyin Peter Constable
- Re: Pinyin Michael Everson
- RE: Pinyin Peter Constable
- Re: Pinyin Randy Presuhn
- Re: Pinyin: the prefix Randy Presuhn
- RE: Pinyin CE Whitehead
- Re: Pinyin Randy Presuhn
- RE: Pinyin Phillips, Addison
- Re: Pinyin Michael Everson
- Re: Pinyin John Cowan
- RE: Pinyin Peter Constable
- RE: Pinyin Tracey, Niall
- RE: Pinyin Tracey, Niall
- Re: Pinyin Michael Everson
- RE: Pinyin Mark Crispin
- Re: Pinyin Randy Presuhn
- RE: Pinyin Mark Crispin
- Re: Pinyin CE Whitehead
- Re: Pinyin CE Whitehead
- RE: Pinyin CE Whitehead
- Re: [Ietf-languages] Tongyong Pinyin bites the du… Michael Everson
- Re: [Ietf-languages] Tongyong Pinyin bites the du… Doug Ewell
- Re: [Ietf-languages] Tongyong Pinyin bites the du… Michael Everson
- Re: [Ietf-languages] Tongyong Pinyin bites the du… Doug Ewell