RE: Pinyin
Lang Gérard <gerard.lang@insee.fr> Thu, 25 September 2008 06:31 UTC
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Subject: RE: Pinyin
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 08:31:53 +0200
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References: <83C5E5CB-FE27-47BA-A98F-F5003F586A64@evertype.com><006e01c91e68$9e4abce0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer><20080924172101.GU19886@mercury.ccil.org><6d99d1fd0809241042g44eba0e8q613989437a958ee@mail.gmail.com><20080924190502.GD11053@mercury.ccil.org><6d99d1fd0809241226k384e9a11h41ebae090bb1b8d6@mail.gmail.com><4D25F22093241741BC1D0EEBC2DBB1DA014C26B041@EX-SEA5-D.ant.amazon.com><6d99d1fd0809241250k18a51b12p7b13d313d3eb41a3@mail.gmail.com><4D25F22093241741BC1D0EEBC2DBB1DA014C26B0EF@EX-SEA5-D.ant.amazon.com><001201c91e86$12691fa0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <DDB6DE6E9D27DD478AE6D1BBBB835795633BC6BE71@NA-EXMSG-C117.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>
From: Lang Gérard <gerard.lang@insee.fr>
To: Peter Constable <petercon@microsoft.com>, ietf-languages@iana.org, Lang Gérard <gerard.lang@insee.fr>
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Because we are tagging (almost) only with the letters of the Latin script, it is a complete illusion to think to encourage only "non-mnemonic" registration: 1-It would be a complete reversion of the past politic (even if some will try to deny this, it is sufficient to inspect the stock to be sure of this; maybe it is not written in the rules, but it was done so); and why would the future tagged languages not have the benefice of a "mnemonic" registration ? 2-Almost every string of Latin letters has or will have connotations with cultural, geographical, historical or political facts or ideas. So, the better is to choose a string whose most evident connotations are really intended, like a mnemonic link with some version of the name of the tagged language. 3-If you want a non-mnemonic, non-significant tagging, then use numeric-tagging. And the other advantage is that, much more that Latin script, numeric arab digital script is almost universal ! 4- In fact, even digital script can also have undesired connotations if you let them have partial significance.. For example, the social security identifier in France is a numeric-13 number, the fisrt one being 1 for men and 2 for wemen. Andd wemen organizations have protested because 1 is before 2. So, I proposed to choose a digitalization only using bits (0/1), so that the fist digit could be 0 for wemen and 1 for men, and so we have 0 before 1 in the natural order, but this was not accepted. But this choice that can give non-mnemonic, non-significant strings has a price: the strings are far longer with an "alphabet" having only 2 characters that with one having 10 characters or one having (more that) 26 characters. Gérard LANG -----Message d'origine----- De : ietf-languages-bounces@alvestrand.no [mailto:ietf-languages-bounces@alvestrand.no] De la part de Peter Constable Envoyé : jeudi 25 septembre 2008 02:20 À : ietf-languages@iana.org Objet : RE: Pinyin From: ietf-languages-bounces@alvestrand.no [mailto:ietf-languages-bounces@alvestrand.no] On Behalf Of Randy Presuhn > A large percentage of the traffic on this list seems to be a direct > result of folks reading too much into the mnemonic value of subtags. Indeed. > Perhaps 4646-bis should encourage only non-mnemonic registrations, to > avoid repeated waste of time. But that would be a discussion for > ltru@ietf.org, not here, and it's really too late to be opening up > that kind of discussion anyway. Even if not spec'd in BCP 47, this kind of thing is also something that this list could adopt as informal policy -- assuming a consensus can be formed and maintained. Peter _______________________________________________ Ietf-languages mailing list Ietf-languages@alvestrand.no http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/ietf-languages
- wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRATION … Mark Davis
- RE: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Broome, Karen
- RE: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Broome, Karen
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… John Cowan
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… John Cowan
- RE: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Broome, Karen
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Mark Davis
- RE: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Broome, Karen
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Doug Ewell
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Frank Ellermann
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… John Cowan
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Frank Ellermann
- Fwd: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRA… Michael Everson
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Michael Everson
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Mark Davis
- RE: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Phillips, Addison
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… John Cowan
- 4646bis era (was: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SU… Frank Ellermann
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Frank Ellermann
- Re: 4646bis era (was: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAG… John Cowan
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Doug Ewell
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Randy Presuhn
- Re: 4646bis era Frank Ellermann
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Andrew Cunningham
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… John Cowan
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Frank Ellermann
- Re: 4646bis era Randy Presuhn
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Andrew Cunningham
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… John Cowan
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Randy Presuhn
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Randy Presuhn
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Michael Everson
- Re: 4646bis era Michael Everson
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Gerard Meijssen
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Doug Ewell
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Michael Everson
- RE: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Broome, Karen
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Randy Presuhn
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Mark Davis
- Re: 4646bis era Frank Ellermann
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Andrew Cunningham
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Andrew Cunningham
- RE: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Broome, Karen
- RE: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Peter Constable
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… John Cowan
- RE: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Peter Constable
- Fwd: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRA… Michael Everson
- RE: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Peter Constable
- Pinyin Michael Everson
- Tongyong Pinyin bites the dust (was: Pinyin) John Cowan
- Re: Tongyong Pinyin bites the dust (was: Pinyin) Doug Ewell
- Re: Tongyong Pinyin bites the dust (was: Pinyin) John Cowan
- Re: Tongyong Pinyin bites the dust (was: Pinyin) Randy Presuhn
- Re: Pinyin: the prefix Michael Everson
- Re: Pinyin Randy Presuhn
- RE: Pinyin Tracey, Niall
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Michael Everson
- Pinyin Michael Everson
- Re: Pinyin Michael Everson
- Re: Pinyin Randy Presuhn
- Re: Pinyin John Cowan
- Re: Pinyin Randy Presuhn
- Re: Pinyin David Starner
- RE: Pinyin Phillips, Addison
- RE: Pinyin Phillips, Addison
- Re: Pinyin John Cowan
- Re: Pinyin John Cowan
- Re: Pinyin David Starner
- RE: Pinyin Phillips, Addison
- Re: Pinyin Randy Presuhn
- Re: Pinyin David Starner
- RE: Pinyin Phillips, Addison
- Re: Pinyin Randy Presuhn
- RE: Pinyin Peter Constable
- Re: Pinyin Doug Ewell
- Re: Pinyin Doug Ewell
- Re: Pinyin Randy Presuhn
- Re: Pinyin John Cowan
- Re: Pinyin Randy Presuhn
- Re: Pinyin John Cowan
- RE: Pinyin Lang Gérard
- Re: Pinyin Michael Everson
- Re: Pinyin Michael Everson
- Re: Pinyin Michael Everson
- RE: Pinyin Tracey, Niall
- OT: digital identifiers (Was: Pinyin Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: Pinyin: the prefix John Cowan
- Re: Pinyin John Cowan
- RE: Pinyin: the prefix Phillips, Addison
- Re: Pinyin: the prefix John Cowan
- RE: Pinyin Peter Constable
- RE: Pinyin: the prefix Peter Constable
- RE: Pinyin Peter Constable
- Re: Pinyin John Cowan
- RE: Pinyin Peter Constable
- Re: Pinyin Michael Everson
- RE: Pinyin Peter Constable
- Re: Pinyin Randy Presuhn
- Re: Pinyin: the prefix Randy Presuhn
- RE: Pinyin CE Whitehead
- Re: Pinyin Randy Presuhn
- RE: Pinyin Phillips, Addison
- Re: Pinyin Michael Everson
- Re: Pinyin John Cowan
- RE: Pinyin Peter Constable
- RE: Pinyin Tracey, Niall
- RE: Pinyin Tracey, Niall
- Re: Pinyin Michael Everson
- RE: Pinyin Mark Crispin
- Re: Pinyin Randy Presuhn
- RE: Pinyin Mark Crispin
- Re: Pinyin CE Whitehead
- Re: Pinyin CE Whitehead
- RE: Pinyin CE Whitehead
- Re: [Ietf-languages] Tongyong Pinyin bites the du… Michael Everson
- Re: [Ietf-languages] Tongyong Pinyin bites the du… Doug Ewell
- Re: [Ietf-languages] Tongyong Pinyin bites the du… Michael Everson
- Re: [Ietf-languages] Tongyong Pinyin bites the du… Doug Ewell