RE: Pinyin
"Phillips, Addison" <addison@amazon.com> Wed, 24 September 2008 18:01 UTC
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From: "Phillips, Addison" <addison@amazon.com>
To: Randy Presuhn <randy_presuhn@mindspring.com>, "ietf-languages@iana.org" <ietf-languages@iana.org>
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 11:01:05 -0700
Subject: RE: Pinyin
Thread-Topic: Pinyin
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> > Who cares? It is complete bollocks in either case, as much so as > nv-DK or tlh-AQ. > > I'm serious. > > Does anyone know which (if any) Tibetan Romanizations are in use in > Taiwan (e.g., in teaching) and whether they differ in any material > way from the ones already discussed here? A Tibetan romanization used in Taiwan (or anywhere, for that matter) would not naturally use the region subtag. I mean: one can use "en-GB" anywhere, even in the United States. We don't retag the data under those circumstances. The only time this would be interesting would be if Tibetan were Romanized differently in Taiwan than anywhere else, including Tibet. > > I'm also trying to understand the generative properties of the > proposal. > Does the bit of information that something is based on Tongyong, > rather than Hanyu Pinyin, come (generatlively) from the -TW-pinyin > part of the tag or does it come (non-generatively) from the list > "zh-Latn-TW-pinyin, zh-TW-pinyin"? > On the other hand, generative meaning has generally been problematic historically. Inferring that a collection of subtags means some unspecified variation requires tag users to intuit or have special knowledge about certain combinations. We had exactly this problem when "zh-TW" was supposed to mean "Traditional Chinese", for example. With the pinyin case, the problem is narrower, since the subtag does encode that the content uses some form of pinyin transcription. I'd like to believe that one could just ignore the non-Hanyu Pinyin cases (especially with 'cmn' on its way), but there really is data transliterated with another Pinyin form in Mandarin. That suggests that we should provide a Hanyu Pinyin *specific* subtag and allow Tongyong et al to be registered as separate subtags. This also suggests that 'pinyin' isn't the right subtag for Hanyu Pinyin. On the gripping hand, we could also register 'pinyin' to mean "any Pinyin". Then if somebody needs the additional distinction later (like next week), they could register subtags like 'hanyu' and 'tongyong' or, heck, '2009acad' as pinyin variations. Again, I'd like to hear the requester's requirements clearly stated. If the requester's requirement is to tag Hanyu Pinyin to the exclusion of other forms and this list and the LSR concur with the feasibility of such a use case (which they appear to do), we should probably give them a non-inclusive subtag (even if we use my last case above to provide it). Addison
- wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRATION … Mark Davis
- RE: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Broome, Karen
- RE: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Broome, Karen
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… John Cowan
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… John Cowan
- RE: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Broome, Karen
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Mark Davis
- RE: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Broome, Karen
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Doug Ewell
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Frank Ellermann
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… John Cowan
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Frank Ellermann
- Fwd: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRA… Michael Everson
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Michael Everson
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Mark Davis
- RE: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Phillips, Addison
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… John Cowan
- 4646bis era (was: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SU… Frank Ellermann
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Frank Ellermann
- Re: 4646bis era (was: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAG… John Cowan
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Doug Ewell
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Randy Presuhn
- Re: 4646bis era Frank Ellermann
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Andrew Cunningham
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… John Cowan
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Frank Ellermann
- Re: 4646bis era Randy Presuhn
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Andrew Cunningham
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… John Cowan
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Randy Presuhn
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Randy Presuhn
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Michael Everson
- Re: 4646bis era Michael Everson
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Gerard Meijssen
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Doug Ewell
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Michael Everson
- RE: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Broome, Karen
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Randy Presuhn
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Mark Davis
- Re: 4646bis era Frank Ellermann
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Andrew Cunningham
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Andrew Cunningham
- RE: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Broome, Karen
- RE: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Peter Constable
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… John Cowan
- RE: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Peter Constable
- Fwd: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRA… Michael Everson
- RE: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Peter Constable
- Pinyin Michael Everson
- Tongyong Pinyin bites the dust (was: Pinyin) John Cowan
- Re: Tongyong Pinyin bites the dust (was: Pinyin) Doug Ewell
- Re: Tongyong Pinyin bites the dust (was: Pinyin) John Cowan
- Re: Tongyong Pinyin bites the dust (was: Pinyin) Randy Presuhn
- Re: Pinyin: the prefix Michael Everson
- Re: Pinyin Randy Presuhn
- RE: Pinyin Tracey, Niall
- Re: wadegile and pinyin LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRAT… Michael Everson
- Pinyin Michael Everson
- Re: Pinyin Michael Everson
- Re: Pinyin Randy Presuhn
- Re: Pinyin John Cowan
- Re: Pinyin Randy Presuhn
- Re: Pinyin David Starner
- RE: Pinyin Phillips, Addison
- RE: Pinyin Phillips, Addison
- Re: Pinyin John Cowan
- Re: Pinyin John Cowan
- Re: Pinyin David Starner
- RE: Pinyin Phillips, Addison
- Re: Pinyin Randy Presuhn
- Re: Pinyin David Starner
- RE: Pinyin Phillips, Addison
- Re: Pinyin Randy Presuhn
- RE: Pinyin Peter Constable
- Re: Pinyin Doug Ewell
- Re: Pinyin Doug Ewell
- Re: Pinyin Randy Presuhn
- Re: Pinyin John Cowan
- Re: Pinyin Randy Presuhn
- Re: Pinyin John Cowan
- RE: Pinyin Lang Gérard
- Re: Pinyin Michael Everson
- Re: Pinyin Michael Everson
- Re: Pinyin Michael Everson
- RE: Pinyin Tracey, Niall
- OT: digital identifiers (Was: Pinyin Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: Pinyin: the prefix John Cowan
- Re: Pinyin John Cowan
- RE: Pinyin: the prefix Phillips, Addison
- Re: Pinyin: the prefix John Cowan
- RE: Pinyin Peter Constable
- RE: Pinyin: the prefix Peter Constable
- RE: Pinyin Peter Constable
- Re: Pinyin John Cowan
- RE: Pinyin Peter Constable
- Re: Pinyin Michael Everson
- RE: Pinyin Peter Constable
- Re: Pinyin Randy Presuhn
- Re: Pinyin: the prefix Randy Presuhn
- RE: Pinyin CE Whitehead
- Re: Pinyin Randy Presuhn
- RE: Pinyin Phillips, Addison
- Re: Pinyin Michael Everson
- Re: Pinyin John Cowan
- RE: Pinyin Peter Constable
- RE: Pinyin Tracey, Niall
- RE: Pinyin Tracey, Niall
- Re: Pinyin Michael Everson
- RE: Pinyin Mark Crispin
- Re: Pinyin Randy Presuhn
- RE: Pinyin Mark Crispin
- Re: Pinyin CE Whitehead
- Re: Pinyin CE Whitehead
- RE: Pinyin CE Whitehead
- Re: [Ietf-languages] Tongyong Pinyin bites the du… Michael Everson
- Re: [Ietf-languages] Tongyong Pinyin bites the du… Doug Ewell
- Re: [Ietf-languages] Tongyong Pinyin bites the du… Michael Everson
- Re: [Ietf-languages] Tongyong Pinyin bites the du… Doug Ewell